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 Post subject: Re: Y vs V front lines. Why? Whats the way forward?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:45 am 
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Assuming both bridles on the same kite,

Y bridle (with at least some pulleys) allows the kite to better change the angles, allowing the kite to roll more easily and to relaunch a bit easier on a shorter bridle. Drawback is less power.

V (bridge) bridle has more power but it also can not change angles so much at least the one w/o pulleys, also the relaunch is a bit harder with more pull from the kite.

The feel from the kite is also a bit different, load distribution also.



C Johnson wrote:
Just curious why so many kite companies seem to use Y front lines these days. From what I've heard they pinch the kite shape and cause it to fly less efficient. If this was the case then why would Best, Cabrinha, North and many other manufacturers be doing it with all their kites?

Whats the benefit of Y front lines?

Whats the benefit of V front lines?

Is it worth while to convert one to the other? It seems like Y front lines are gaining popularity. Is this the way forward?

I currently fly Switch Element kites which use a V front line setup. I'm kinda curious what a Y setup would ride like. I understand I would have to retune the steering lines to make up for the added pinch (shortening of the front lines).

Interested to hear what everyone has to say.


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 Post subject: Re: Y vs V front lines. Why? Whats the way forward?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:47 pm 
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Gigi;) wrote:
Y bridle (with at least some pulleys) allows the kite to better change the angles, allowing the kite to roll more easily and to relaunch a bit easier on a shorter bridle. Drawback is less power.

V (bridge) bridle has more power but it also can not change angles so much at least the one w/o pulleys, also the relaunch is a bit harder with more pull from the kite.




the Y is dead but it has nothing to do with performance. Y relies on the bridle to roll the kite on its back. This requires long bridles and usually pulleys. Cabrinha recently left Y because they were making new kites with short bridles and it had to use the V. That's basically it. If you look at liquid force, you can check out the new 2014 Envy compare it to the 2013 Envy the old envy has a long bridle pulleys and can use a Y, but back in 2010 liquid force switched from Y to V so now when they came out with this direct connection short bridled Envy they don't have to redesign the control bar.

North will also have to give up the Y too if they want to change their 4 line kite design.

So yeah there are these other things a kiter might notice the Y will press in a few pounds of force on the kite, the V might allow you to do tricky self landing techniques or uninvert the kite out on the water, the Y has it's own bag of tricks for self launch and landing, but what is really going on here is that the Y safety system imposes design constraints on the kite design, that's why it lost the control bar wars.

A Y requires a certain type of bridle on the kite and won't safely flag out some types of kites. A V flag out system works with any kite. That's why the Y system lost.


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 Post subject: Re: Y vs V front lines. Why? Whats the way forward?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:05 am 
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To be sure that we're on the same wave length Y (actually double Y) vs. V (bridged):

Image

Both has it's pros & cons. Actually it depends on the targeted segment which bridle to use. Many bridles will work on the same design, it just depends what designer wants out of it.

Regarding that power statement of mine, different bridles acts differently on load distribution over the kite structure, here's one sample:

Image
(regarding the power some bridles might not be the right choice... that's why you also see more V (bridged) bridles on LW kites recently)

:bye:

PS: If we're discussing on Y/V front lines only (original thread) - I don't use Y, but if I'd do I'd make it as short as possible (depends on how you want your safety settled), since Y messes too much with pivot point of the kite plus some other things.

edt wrote:
Gigi;) wrote:
Y bridle (with at least some pulleys) allows the kite to better change the angles, allowing the kite to roll more easily and to relaunch a bit easier on a shorter bridle. Drawback is less power.

V (bridge) bridle has more power but it also can not change angles so much at least the one w/o pulleys, also the relaunch is a bit harder with more pull from the kite.




the Y is dead but it has nothing to do with performance. Y relies on the bridle to roll the kite on its back. This requires long bridles and usually pulleys. Cabrinha recently left Y because they were making new kites with short bridles and it had to use the V. That's basically it. If you look at liquid force, you can check out the new 2014 Envy compare it to the 2013 Envy the old envy has a long bridle pulleys and can use a Y, but back in 2010 liquid force switched from Y to V so now when they came out with this direct connection short bridled Envy they don't have to redesign the control bar.

North will also have to give up the Y too if they want to change their 4 line kite design.

So yeah there are these other things a kiter might notice the Y will press in a few pounds of force on the kite, the V might allow you to do tricky self landing techniques or uninvert the kite out on the water, the Y has it's own bag of tricks for self launch and landing, but what is really going on here is that the Y safety system imposes design constraints on the kite design, that's why it lost the control bar wars.

A Y requires a certain type of bridle on the kite and won't safely flag out some types of kites. A V flag out system works with any kite. That's why the Y system lost.


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 Post subject: Re: Y vs V front lines. Why? Whats the way forward?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:39 am 
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paulie wrote:
longwhitecloud wrote:
i rode my torch on 5th line bar with no y bridle - it flares and does not fly quite so great which is a shame


The torch runs with a thin leading edge and the Y bridle acts as stopper on the 5th line. This keeps the 5th line loaded and keeps the kites shape.

Flying on a normal 5th line bar the without the loaded 5th line the LE doesn't have the same support and being thin it will cause the kite to jelly fish and flare.

I did a similar thing by putting my old North Rhino 05 on a Slingshot 5 line bar.. Again it jelly fished and flow like a crock of shit...


I flew my Torches on 5th Element which is loaded 5th, kites flew awful just because Y is different length, can have a big effect on kite


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