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 Post subject: Re: New to forum, help please
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:40 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:51 pm
Posts: 120
Location: Toronto, ON
Glad to hear you got it sorted. While I appreciate sentiments like those of TheJoe about not over complicating and keeping things simple, I think there's also something to be said about understanding the 'why' and 'how' of the sport; for everything from weather to kite dynamics.

I'm of the opinion that the better you know how your equipment functions, the better you'll be able to maintain it, and the safer you'll be. That said, I'm in agreement with TheJoe that it is easy to overwhelm a beginner with too much information at once. So, it's a matter of giving the pertinent information at the right time.

Looking over my posts, they're rather dense and I really should have left out the bit about hindenburgs for now, as that's something you should go over with your instructor when the time comes. And perhaps I shouldn't have gone into such gross detail about kite tuning except for the fact that you're have a 4-line foil and I know how finicky they can be to get dialed-in. Besides, you seem like a capable guy who'll be able to extract the relevant bits from the wall of text that I put up.

I'm looking forward to your reflections on the differences after you get some flying time on 4 lines!


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 Post subject: Re: New to forum, help please
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:55 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:42 pm
Posts: 102
Ok I need some help here.

I went out today for the first time to really fly my kite on a good windy day. We had a good 20mph winds constantly and about 25-30mph gusts. Now I was able to get the kite up but it's not flying right. As far as I can tell none of the lines are crossed. I have a clear view of the lines too. I'm pretty sure I have the front and rear lines hooked up right also. I think it's a problem in the bridles but can't figure it out.

The kite pulls to the right, I have to pull the left hand side down almost all the way to keep it centered. I can turn the kite to the left but its slow. If I pull as hard as I can on the left bar I can just barely get the kite to do a large kite loop. If I pull the right side the kite wants to pin wheel. Spin in place it doesn't really loop more like a flat spin. It's controlled but just very fast.

I was still able to fly the kite. I flew it like this for a few hours today with about a half an hour of that trying to figure out what was wrong with the lines or bridles with no luck. O a good note I was able to practice mock water starts, flying to both sides of the wind window while running with the kite and flying the kite blind while doing this. I have noticed its easier to fly the kite in 4 line mode. Like you guys have said I can park the kite easier. Still takes some input but a lot easier. I was even able to do a few jumps with the kite. The high wind gusts made those a lot of fun.

Its dark now but I plan on tuning my bar and lines based on a video that real watersports has. Ill do that in the morning. At least that way ill know if its the length of the bar and lines or a problem there. Is there a reason that the kite flys fine in 2 line but not in 4 line? It is posible that I messed something up going from 2 to 4 line or while trying to fly it and crashing. I may try to hook it up in 2 line and see if it still flys this way.


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 Post subject: Re: New to forum, help please
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:04 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:24 am
Posts: 15
Redman,
The back-line pigtails get easily tangled or crossed with the bridle lines. Maybe a weak point in the design. They could have crossed a bridle before you attached your lines or tangled after. It not always easy to spot. So, check them carefully and check them every time your near (setting up or after a crash) the kite. You might also have sand in the kite but, I think you would have noticed enough to affect flight. If it gets into the wingtips, it can be difficult to get out.


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 Post subject: Re: New to forum, help please
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:12 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:42 pm
Posts: 102
styleito wrote:
Redman,
The back-line pigtails get easily tangled or crossed with the bridle lines. Maybe a weak point in the design. They could have crossed a bridle before you attached your lines or tangled after. It not always easy to spot. So, check them carefully and check them every time your near (setting up or after a crash) the kite. You might also have sand in the kite but, I think you would have noticed enough to affect flight. If it gets into the wingtips, it can be difficult to get out.

I think that was the problem. I checked my bar and lines and they are perfect which is what I figured since they are brand new. The. Checked the kite and I did have some lines wrapped so I got that straight now. I should be able to fly a lot this week. They are predicting good winds all week so I should have plenty of practice in. I didn't think about sand but I didn't have any in there but it's a good thing to know though.


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 Post subject: Re: New to forum, help please
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:22 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:42 pm
Posts: 102
redman333 wrote:
styleito wrote:
Redman,
The back-line pigtails get easily tangled or crossed with the bridle lines. Maybe a weak point in the design. They could have crossed a bridle before you attached your lines or tangled after. It not always easy to spot. So, check them carefully and check them every time your near (setting up or after a crash) the kite. You might also have sand in the kite but, I think you would have noticed enough to affect flight. If it gets into the wingtips, it can be difficult to get out.

I think that was the problem. I checked my bar and lines and they are perfect which is what I figured since they are brand new. The. Checked the kite and I did have some lines wrapped so I got that straight now. I should be able to fly a lot this week. They are predicting good winds all week so I should have plenty of practice in. I didn't think about sand but I didn't have any in there but it's a good thing to know though.


I still have a major issue in my kite. We had some epic winds here yesterday and I went out in 35mph sustained winds and gusts up to 45mph. I could not level out my kite it constantly wants to pull to the right. I have to pull as hard as I can on the left side of the bar just to keep the kite straight. I can fly it like this however it's just aggravating. I had checked and rechecked the lines and can't figure out what's wrong, I've decided to put it back in 2 line mode to see if that fixes it. To be honest though I can't tell by looking at the bridles if something is messed up. It all looks straight to me. I'm not sure when I'll get a chance but I want to open the kite up and take a bunch of pics of the bridles and post them here maybe you guys can point out what's wrong. This was very frustrating yesterday because the winds were strong enough that I could almost ride on a board just with my trainer. I was about to jump a couple times and that was fun but I couldn't trust my kite and what it was going to do so I couldn't really enjoy it.


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 Post subject: Re: New to forum, help please
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:51 pm
Posts: 120
Location: Toronto, ON
Sorry to hear you're having trouble with the 4-line mode; that's really frustrating. Unless there's some sand in the kite as styleito mentioned; something is imbalanced between the two sides. It's also strange to me that this problem is only exhibiting itself in 4-line mode. If you *have* to go back to 2-lines I'm curious as to whether the problem will disappear.

To check the bridle close-up, you could hang the kite from the ceiling or a beam on the line attachment points. For the kite to be biased so significantly as you describe, the problem area should be noticeable unless it's a manufacturing problem. If you want to get scientific about it, you can bust-out a ruler and compare measurements between the knots on each side of the kite; starting from the line attachment points toward the kite. But at this point, you'd be looking for a manufacturing defect and really should be in touch with the manufacturer.

I'd put my money on a tangle or twists in the bridle though. I hope you can figure it out!


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 Post subject: Re: New to forum, help please
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:19 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:42 pm
Posts: 102
jbdc wrote:
Sorry to hear you're having trouble with the 4-line mode; that's really frustrating. Unless there's some sand in the kite as styleito mentioned; something is imbalanced between the two sides. It's also strange to me that this problem is only exhibiting itself in 4-line mode. If you *have* to go back to 2-lines I'm curious as to whether the problem will disappear.

To check the bridle close-up, you could hang the kite from the ceiling or a beam on the line attachment points. For the kite to be biased so significantly as you describe, the problem area should be noticeable unless it's a manufacturing problem. If you want to get scientific about it, you can bust-out a ruler and compare measurements between the knots on each side of the kite; starting from the line attachment points toward the kite. But at this point, you'd be looking for a manufacturing defect and really should be in touch with the manufacturer.

I'd put my money on a tangle or twists in the bridle though. I hope you can figure it out!

It was very frustrating. I'm going out of town this weekend fora wedding so I won't be able to do anything til I get back.

I bought a wetsuit from a guy on craigslist today though. It's a hyper flex 5/4/3 full suit with hood. I also bought a gopro hero3 black edition and a head mount and chest mount. When I do put the trainer in 2 line mode I'm going to get some video to show you guys what it's doing.

Also I found a local instructor that's going to help me on my first ride very soon. Since I now have my wetsuit and my video cam I want to go ahead and see about having him teach me to ride real soon. I'm thinking in the next couple weeks here as long s the weather cooperats. Plus we are gaining an extra hour of daylight this week so ill have more time after work to ride. Maybe if the instructor can teach me soon enough than I won't even care about the trainer. Ill still want to fix it for others to use but it won't be my main concern anymore lol.


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 Post subject: Re: New to forum, help please
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:48 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:42 pm
Posts: 102
Good news everyone I was able to get up and ride today. It was a blast! I didn't technically take a lesson but the instructor was just there to make sure I didn't do anything stupid. I really didn't need any instruction except he did tell me to dive the kite harder to stand up. I was just barely dipping it down lol. It was just the right advice I needed though because after that I got up and rode for a good 100yards and then fell lol. I am able to get up now just about every time. I think I have the hang of it.

Now questions,
1. How do I stay upwind? I was having a hard time doing that.
2. It seemed as if the faster I went the harder the kite pulled and I kept speeding up. How do I slow down or control my speed. I think if I could do that I could ride a lot longer. Especially when it's choppy water.

I think that's all I have at the moment. I did attempt to turn back the other direction once but didn't succeed. After this I crashed my kite and it caught a good 30mph gust directly down wind of me so I released my quick release as soon as I saw it power up. The only problem was I tangled my lines bad after this so I packed up and walked in. Once I got in I realized I cut my feet up pretty bad on the shells from walking so I called it a day to doctor my feet up and I went and bought some booties lol.

I did get video so once I go through and cut all the flush of me walking around and keep just the ones of me falling and riding and attempting to stand ill post it up. I have about 2 hours of video to go though so I probably won't post it until mid week or so.

To all that helped here though thank you very much for all the advice. All my equipment I bought was perfect for me, at least for now it is. I kept a mellow head and went through what I was supposed to do about 20 times before I stood up.


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 Post subject: Re: New to forum, help please
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 5:36 am
Posts: 8501
Location: Oahu
redman333 wrote:
Good news everyone I was able to get up and ride today. It was a blast! I didn't technically take a lesson but the instructor was just there to make sure I didn't do anything stupid. I really didn't need any instruction except he did tell me to dive the kite harder to stand up. I was just barely dipping it down lol. It was just the right advice I needed though because after that I got up and rode for a good 100yards and then fell lol. I am able to get up now just about every time. I think I have the hang of it.

Now questions,
1. How do I stay upwind? I was having a hard time doing that.
2. It seemed as if the faster I went the harder the kite pulled and I kept speeding up. How do I slow down or control my speed. I think if I could do that I could ride a lot longer. Especially when it's choppy water.

I think that's all I have at the moment. I did attempt to turn back the other direction once but didn't succeed. After this I crashed my kite and it caught a good 30mph gust directly down wind of me so I released my quick release as soon as I saw it power up. The only problem was I tangled my lines bad after this so I packed up and walked in. Once I got in I realized I cut my feet up pretty bad on the shells from walking so I called it a day to doctor my feet up and I went and bought some booties lol.

I did get video so once I go through and cut all the flush of me walking around and keep just the ones of me falling and riding and attempting to stand ill post it up. I have about 2 hours of video to go though so I probably won't post it until mid week or so.

To all that helped here though thank you very much for all the advice. All my equipment I bought was perfect for me, at least for now it is. I kept a mellow head and went through what I was supposed to do about 20 times before I stood up.


be a little patient. You have already discovered the key. You just do not know it yet.

The faster the kite goes the more power you have. That is all. Now you have to find the balance between speed and upwind. With the newer kites, most people use the bar to depower..the other one is to push on your board. The will lead the kite forward in the window and make you go upwind.
If you are on a TT, you have to put more effort on your back foot. Once you know how to ride it I would say 80-90% of effort will be on your back foot.

Finally turn your body upwind. Look where you want to go, your body will react and lead you there.

1. Have speed and power
2. Lean back and push on your back foot
3. Turn your body upwind


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 Post subject: Re: New to forum, help please
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:09 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:42 pm
Posts: 102
tautologies wrote:
redman333 wrote:
Good news everyone I was able to get up and ride today. It was a blast! I didn't technically take a lesson but the instructor was just there to make sure I didn't do anything stupid. I really didn't need any instruction except he did tell me to dive the kite harder to stand up. I was just barely dipping it down lol. It was just the right advice I needed though because after that I got up and rode for a good 100yards and then fell lol. I am able to get up now just about every time. I think I have the hang of it.

Now questions,
1. How do I stay upwind? I was having a hard time doing that.
2. It seemed as if the faster I went the harder the kite pulled and I kept speeding up. How do I slow down or control my speed. I think if I could do that I could ride a lot longer. Especially when it's choppy water.

I think that's all I have at the moment. I did attempt to turn back the other direction once but didn't succeed. After this I crashed my kite and it caught a good 30mph gust directly down wind of me so I released my quick release as soon as I saw it power up. The only problem was I tangled my lines bad after this so I packed up and walked in. Once I got in I realized I cut my feet up pretty bad on the shells from walking so I called it a day to doctor my feet up and I went and bought some booties lol.

I did get video so once I go through and cut all the flush of me walking around and keep just the ones of me falling and riding and attempting to stand ill post it up. I have about 2 hours of video to go though so I probably won't post it until mid week or so.

To all that helped here though thank you very much for all the advice. All my equipment I bought was perfect for me, at least for now it is. I kept a mellow head and went through what I was supposed to do about 20 times before I stood up.


be a little patient. You have already discovered the key. You just do not know it yet.

The faster the kite goes the more power you have. That is all. Now you have to find the balance between speed and upwind. With the newer kites, most people use the bar to depower..the other one is to push on your board. The will lead the kite forward in the window and make you go upwind.
If you are on a TT, you have to put more effort on your back foot. Once you know how to ride it I would say 80-90% of effort will be on your back foot.

Finally turn your body upwind. Look where you want to go, your body will react and lead you there.

1. Have speed and power
2. Lean back and push on your back foot
3. Turn your body upwind

Ok that makes sense. Sort of the same way I would slow down snowboarding or really want to carve into a turn. Should be easy enough. I won't be able to try this for a little while. Need to let my foot heal at least a little first. I'm not sure when the next windy day is going to be. If I remember correctly its supposed to be windy this week wed. Maybe my foot will be healed enough to ride again.


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