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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:50 am 
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ozonelevel wrote:
Try here;
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2381295


Hi ozonelevel,

I've searched the 3 pages of this topic and found no references of a comparison between the SB and Cloud. Is it really this topic? Who wrote this comment? Which page?

Sorry for the trouble. Thanks, Diogo.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:21 am 
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diogovilla wrote:
ozonelevel wrote:
Try here;
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2381295


Hi ozonelevel,

I've searched the 3 pages of this topic and found no references of a comparison between the SB and Cloud. Is it really this topic? Who wrote this comment? Which page?

Sorry for the trouble. Thanks, Diogo.


The reference was for the definition of grunt. Based on my experience, the differences between the 13M Cloud and 14M SB are:
Cloud turns much faster. The Cloud has more power and will fly in much lower winds. Cloud has less bar pressure. SB has higher upper range and more grunt.
Cloud feels a lot different and needs some getting used to.
Kind of like the difference between driving a sports car with a small turbocharged engine (Cloud), and a pickup truck with a diesel engine (SB).


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:04 pm 
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ozonelevel wrote:
diogovilla wrote:
ozonelevel wrote:
Try here;
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2381295


Hi ozonelevel,

I've searched the 3 pages of this topic and found no references of a comparison between the SB and Cloud. Is it really this topic? Who wrote this comment? Which page?

Sorry for the trouble. Thanks, Diogo.


The reference was for the definition of grunt. Based on my experience, the differences between the 13M Cloud and 14M SB are:
Cloud turns much faster. The Cloud has more power and will fly in much lower winds. Cloud has less bar pressure. SB has higher upper range and more grunt.
Cloud feels a lot different and needs some getting used to.
Kind of like the difference between driving a sports car with a small turbocharged engine (Cloud), and a pickup truck with a diesel engine (SB).


That is very interesting. You believe that the Cloud has a better low end but the SB is "gruntier", right? How is that possible? The Cloud works better with apparent wind?

Your opinion seems honest to me (it matches my current opinions on the switchblade). Have you ever owned (or currently owns) a switchblade?

Thanks a lot,
DIogo


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:02 pm 
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diogovilla wrote:

That is very interesting. You believe that the Cloud has a better low end but the SB is "gruntier", right? How is that possible? The Cloud works better with apparent wind?

Your opinion seems honest to me (it matches my current opinions on the switchblade). Have you ever owned (or currently owns) a switchblade?

Thanks a lot,
DIogo


Yes, I've owned and flown SBs. I primarily moved away from them temporarily for lower bar pressure kites.
The Cloud will for sure fly in lower winds. You can actually fly it in no wind by just walking, just for demonstration. In the same wind, where the SB can actually fly, the SB feels gruntier deep in the window, whereas the Cloud feels more powerful higher in the window.
Basically, the 14 SB is for a heavy rider in winds ~13+kts., it's not a light wind kite.
The 13 Cloud will fly in 8+kts, but not necessarily for a heavy rider. At 13kts it will feel more powerful than the SB, and yes works better with apparent wind.

Bottom line, you just have to try it to really tell the difference. People will all have a different opinion on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:13 pm 
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ozonelevel wrote:
diogovilla wrote:

That is very interesting. You believe that the Cloud has a better low end but the SB is "gruntier", right? How is that possible? The Cloud works better with apparent wind?

Your opinion seems honest to me (it matches my current opinions on the switchblade). Have you ever owned (or currently owns) a switchblade?

Thanks a lot,
DIogo


Yes, I've owned and flown SBs. I primarily moved away from them temporarily for lower bar pressure kites.
The Cloud will for sure fly in lower winds. You can actually fly it in no wind by just walking, just for demonstration. In the same wind, where the SB can actually fly, the SB feels gruntier deep in the window, whereas the Cloud feels more powerful higher in the window.
Basically, the 14 SB is for a heavy rider in winds ~13+kts., it's not a light wind kite.
The 13 Cloud will fly in 8+kts, but not necessarily for a heavy rider. At 13kts it will feel more powerful than the SB, and yes works better with apparent wind.

Bottom line, you just have to try it to really tell the difference. People will all have a different opinion on it.


Shit! Now i have to try it!


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:52 pm 
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ozonelevel wrote:
...Kind of like the difference between driving a sports car with a small turbocharged engine (Cloud), and a pickup truck with a diesel engine (SB).

let me help you be more honest here: driving a sports car with a small turbocharged engine (Cloud) without the first four gears. it will pull you eventually when it develops enough air speed...


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:16 pm 
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eree wrote:
ozonelevel wrote:
...Kind of like the difference between driving a sports car with a small turbocharged engine (Cloud), and a pickup truck with a diesel engine (SB).

let me help you be more honest here: driving a sports car with a small turbocharged engine (Cloud) without the first four gears. it will pull you eventually when it develops enough air speed...


Yes, it definitely takes more skill to drive the 5 speed turbo than the diesel automatic.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:45 pm 
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eree wrote:
ozonelevel wrote:
...Kind of like the difference between driving a sports car with a small turbocharged engine (Cloud), and a pickup truck with a diesel engine (SB).

let me help you be more honest here: driving a sports car with a small turbocharged engine (Cloud) without the first four gears. it will pull you eventually when it develops enough air speed...


Hi Eree,

Did you buy a Cloud? How you flown it several times? Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:29 pm 
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Posts: 1170
Location: shallow sea
diogovilla wrote:
eree wrote:
ozonelevel wrote:
...Kind of like the difference between driving a sports car with a small turbocharged engine (Cloud), and a pickup truck with a diesel engine (SB).

let me help you be more honest here: driving a sports car with a small turbocharged engine (Cloud) without the first four gears. it will pull you eventually when it develops enough air speed...
Hi Eree,
Did you buy a Cloud? How you flown it several times? Thanks.

hi diogovilla,

first, answer to your Q: i have rode several low profile kites of different brands repeatedly. i have 17m race (also low profile) kite in my quiver currently. and they all are pretty much the same.


second, why?

do you think cloud is somehow magically different beside the weight?

or did you join the "no buy - no comment" police force lately? do you think you are sincere recommending this kite to heavier rider?


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:16 am
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eree wrote:
diogovilla wrote:

Did you buy a Cloud? How you flown it several times? Thanks.

hi diogovilla,

first, answer to your Q: i have rode several low profile kites of different brands repeatedly. i have 17m race (also low profile) kite in my quiver currently. and they all are pretty much the same.


second, why?

do you think cloud is somehow magically different beside the weight?

or did you join the "no buy - no comment" police force lately? do you think you are sincere recommending this kite to heavier rider?


I'm not recommending this kite to anyone. I am ASKING recommendations from people who have rode BOTH the kite I currently use (the 2010 switchblade 14m) and the kite I am considering moving to (the cloud 13m).

I live in Brazil. I will not have a chance to try the cloud before buying. Besides staying with the kite I already have, my only option is talking to riders who have flown both kites and get their impressions.

I don't think the Cloud is magic. I just think that it MAY be better for me, based on the characteristics people are telling and my riding style.

When you say that the Cloud "misses the four first gears" and tells me that you have never flown it, i think you are being somewhat irresponsible.

I would really like to hear from people who have tried it and didn't like it. Please stop me from making a mistake or help me moving to a kite that is going to be better for me. Thanks.


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