|
| Author |
Message |
|
FrederikS
|
Post subject: Re: Strenght and flexibility Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:44 pm |
|
 |
| Rare Poster |
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:33 pm Posts: 26
|
BWD wrote: Skin only takes all the load when it's way stiffer than the core. I'm talking about building something besides a standard composite I-beam... The wood core can control some aspects of flex (how much, damping etc...), while unidirectional fibers near the neutral axis add some stiffness and reflex but are away from impact, point loads and supported against buckling, the primary failure mode for kiteboards. I don't envision this idea mainly for light foam or balsa but maybe it could be good with spruce, larch, fir, cedar poplar etc. It could apply with various fibers. Carbon for example, likes to be unkinked and well supported, and most efficiently used used in flat unidirectional sheets and tows... I would try this with cedar or paulownia with a light bias e glass on the outside, and E S or CF unis at the core. Just an idea... Ah ok so you are going to use a structural wood rather than sandwich types. Could be good then 
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
BWD
|
Post subject: Re: Strenght and flexibility Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:56 pm |
|
 |
| Very Frequent Poster |
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 3:37 am Posts: 1825
|
|
It's just a thought, and I am no engineer, maybe we'll see some day. The drawback is the cores have to be very planar or you end up adding too much extra weight in gluing the layers together. Having done some 2 layer boards though, it definitely makes getting the rocker right easier! Lot of work hand planing the layers to be flat though, need to get a thickness planer or sanding drum machine. Conventional type of construction works pretty well too....
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Bille
|
Post subject: Re: Strenght and flexibility Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:29 pm |
|
 |
| Very Frequent Poster |
 |
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:37 pm Posts: 960
|
BWD wrote: Skin only takes all the load when it's way stiffer than the core. I'm talking about building something besides a standard composite I-beam... The wood core can control some aspects of flex (how much, damping etc...), while unidirectional fibers near the neutral axis add some stiffness and reflex but are away from impact, point loads and supported against buckling, the primary failure mode for kiteboards. ... Just an idea... An array of 50K carbon uni , (which is quite easy to wet-out , on both sides of your wood core will absorb stress to the point where the skin itself could be kinda light because the main stress in going through the entire length of the board. Now This is where i could recommend a +/- 45deg fiberglass to control torsion on the twisting axes. Other wise the use of carbon Tow is a better choice of materials. The moment that carbon is woven, you can loose up to 30% in compression strength. Same goes for fiberglass ; a light , ((12oz "Stitched" fiberglass )) is nearly as strong as a 16oz woven fiberglass of the same make-up.But remember that your also spreading 12oz of epoxy -Vs - 16oz of epoxy + the extra glass, for the same strength. If your gonna use glass, then at least use the, (bi or tri) -stitched-uni. Here is an example with NO mat between the glass uni-fibers, mat absorbs Tuns of epoxy, and it's hard to control the weight because of it. http://www.raka.com/Stitched_woven_biax ... axial.htmlBille
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
plummet
|
Post subject: Re: Strenght and flexibility Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:31 pm |
|
 |
| Very Frequent Poster |
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:25 pm Posts: 1558 Location: The Naki
|
Bille wrote: BWD wrote: Skin only takes all the load when it's way stiffer than the core. I'm talking about building something besides a standard composite I-beam... The wood core can control some aspects of flex (how much, damping etc...), while unidirectional fibers near the neutral axis add some stiffness and reflex but are away from impact, point loads and supported against buckling, the primary failure mode for kiteboards. ... Just an idea... An array of 50K carbon uni , (which is quite easy to wet-out , on both sides of your wood core will absorb stress to the point where the skin itself could be kinda light because the main stress in going through the entire length of the board. Now This is where i could recommend a +/- 45deg fiberglass to control torsion on the twisting axes. Other wise the use of carbon Tow is a better choice of materials. The moment that carbon is woven, you can loose up to 30% in compression strength. Same goes for fiberglass ; a light , ((12oz "Stitched" fiberglass )) is nearly as strong as a 16oz woven fiberglass of the same make-up.But remember that your also spreading 12oz of epoxy -Vs - 16oz of epoxy + the extra glass, for the same strength. If your gonna use glass, then at least use the, (bi or tri) -stitched-uni. Here is an example with NO mat between the glass uni-fibers, mat absorbs Tuns of epoxy, and it's hard to control the weight because of it. http://www.raka.com/Stitched_woven_biax ... axial.html Bille Bille's advice is good. uni - directional for longetudinal stiffness, double bias on the 45's for torsional stiffness. Triaxle is a uni layer and double bias layers on the 45's in one cloth. Awesome for kiteboard construction! very hard to find in carbon tho. With that combo you can make the stiffest lightest and most efficient layup. plain weave as Bille states is not as efficient. Also there is Zero point having fibres running at 90 Deg to the board length. its doing nothing! its simply a waste of material.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Bille
|
Post subject: Re: Strenght and flexibility Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:47 pm |
|
 |
| Very Frequent Poster |
 |
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:37 pm Posts: 960
|
plummet wrote:
... Awesome for kiteboard construction! very hard to find in carbon tho.
...
Don't know what shipping would be to your side of the world there --plummet-- but the same place that sells the stitched fiberglass, also carries the carbon in a few different weights. http://www.raka.com/stitched_carbon.htmlIf you use stitched carbon , be careful on the weight you choose, remember that Carbon in stitched form is a BUNCH, ((GOBS)) stronger than the 20+ oz of glass woven stuff you are use to working with !! I would recommend that if Stitched carbon is use for the skins, then start with a light one ; a layer of plane-weave can be applied Later if necessary. For this reason i would peal-ply the entire board so you can go with paint or a finish layer of carbon or glass later. ALSO-- stitched carbon doesn't make for a very pretty cosmetic surface , so paint is usually added unless you can afford a 1 or 2K carbon woven for the finish out-side layer ; the one i use for my RC helicopter bodies, is 50" wide and $75 a running yd, with a weight of 3.7oz,(yd)sq. At that price, the paint sounds appealing if Ya don't need More stiffness ? BLACK isn't a very good choice of colors with a foam-core anyway ... Bille
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
plummet
|
Post subject: Re: Strenght and flexibility Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:48 pm |
|
 |
| Very Frequent Poster |
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:25 pm Posts: 1558 Location: The Naki
|
I've got a handle on using carbon Bille. But thanks for caring. Here's my last carbon build http://vimeo.com/53148418Carbon/bamboo landboard with intergrated carbon trucks. by all accounts a significantly harder build than a kiteboard. PS i like the carbon uni finish! Next up for me is a bamboo/glass skim board. Then i'll be onto carbon/bamboo mutant build!.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Bille
|
Post subject: Re: Strenght and flexibility Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:57 pm |
|
 |
| Very Frequent Poster |
 |
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:37 pm Posts: 960
|
plummet wrote: I've got a handle on using carbon Bille. But thanks for caring.
...
That must-a came across the wrong way ; i thought i was more speaking to the guys who never used carbon-stitched before ---------------Sorry !
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
plummet
|
Post subject: Re: Strenght and flexibility Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:18 am |
|
 |
| Very Frequent Poster |
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:25 pm Posts: 1558 Location: The Naki
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Benit
|
Post subject: Re: Strenght and flexibility Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:28 pm |
|
 |
| Rare Poster |
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:06 pm Posts: 5 Location: Australia
|
Well, that is great sir that your sons are into surfing.  I myself was just like you, drinking more water then staying on the surfboard. I am really anthusiastic about how to make a board so, was checking if i could get anything to start out, and i think i got it. Flexibility and strength. i will just check out more on it into boards, and hope you get the answer to your question  Good Luck Gold Coast surfboard rentals
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
mattthieu
|
Post subject: Re: Strenght and flexibility Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:06 am |
|
 |
| Medium Poster |
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:01 pm Posts: 57
|
|
so, guys, if i read you corectly, the strenght comes from the skins ( using foam core ) !!
what about : 2 layers of foam glued together ( cause i coul'n get more then thick one ) and, during the glue togeter process, il' ad glass fiber tape ( 9 oz 3 inch tapes ) in x patern from one tip to the other ( and in other paterns i could think of ). this dome ON a rocker table ( and concave to ) so, the core itself stands alone AND in my mind there would be added stiffnes !
would i be adding stiffnes VS putting the same quantity of glass on the top or bottom ? or lose some ?
just thinking, 3 plies are stiffer then 2 ? for the same weith ???
or am i all wrong ?
maybe using , in the future, center Carbon uni fibers ????
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
Who is online |
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests |
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum
|
|
|