The problem with designing a ~16m kite (Infinity V2 and V3) for "light winds" is that the luff curve has to be very deep to "milk" as much low end as possible. This causes the kite to sit VERY deep in the window, leading to the problems "Laughingman" outlined, i.e. poor upwind ability, a tendency to yank the rider downwind, extremely poor top-end, and poor ability to absorb gusts.Laughingman wrote:1. (for me) it sat too far back in the window making edging up wind almost impossible unless you were on a light wind specific board
2. and if you were on a light wind board it was easy to lose speed control since edging against it was near impossible … but it still yanked me downwind because it sits so far back in the window.
Objective testing of previous versions of the "Infinity" showed it had inferior power to other kites in light winds: http://www.thekiteboarder.com/2011/05/e ... te-review/davesails7 wrote:I've been riding a 2011 18m Dyno for the last few months and have been really impressed. I've ridden it while others rode…Epic Infinity…, so can compare low end by how I was able to get on the water vs. the others. Who knows what actual wind speeds were up in the air at the kite. I think side by side comparison is much more helpful than endless videos of a kite riding alone on glassy water.
vs. Infinity: Dyno was stable in the air, never fell out of the sky for 4 hours of light wind riding. Two guys with Infinities were struggling to keep their kites in the air most of the time.
The Infinity V3 failed in 8 knots (see below). The V2 performing in 5k? Complete bullshit.Dimitri M wrote: I have video of the Infinity V2 in action from 5 to 10 knots real soon. Did I say 5 knots!!!! No way..... !
SupaEZ wrote: I would have written (Dimitri M) a check right there and then if his kite was better than mine...but it was not. I did get going earlier in the light wind that we had 7-9k max avg 8k. But he needed 7-11kn avg 9k.......which never happened.
Epic Infinity V3 Will LOSE Even More Low EndSupaEZ wrote:His kite needed more wind to get going.
I was 100 ft away from beach on a full plane in 8k. He was 10 ft away from the beach on a sub-plane working hard not to end up on beach also in 8k. Right before we crossed (dead onshore wind) … Made sure he saw me...i looked into the white of his eyes. Did a 6 ft air forward 1 1/2 transition with kite downloop to toeside and planed off on the other tack
For the short time we were both able to go out i did 5 type jumps/ transitions. Many with looping the kite effortlessly.
He was only able to get one 4ft air back roll transition and landed in an insufficient amount of water. He was then grounded.
End of story.
…the issue here is who is BS "ing" who here about LW performance.
I felt like i was riding against someone with a smaller size kite.....OOOPS i was !
It is IMPOSSIBLE to give a kite more high end without compromising low end. Hence, the Epic Infinity V3 will become even more INFERIOR in light winds.DimitriM wrote:…we are still working on perfecting the High end of the INFINITY v3.
Compared to the Core19m kite, the Epic Infinity V3 was noticeably INFERIOR; it certainly didn't have the "power of a 19m".Dimitri M wrote: Infinity V2 has the power of a 19 meter but turns like a 14 meter.
In response, the following was posted by a knowledgeable local:Dimitri M wrote:3 to 6 knots
Despite the claimed performance in "3-6k", quite clearly, the Epic Infinity cannot perform on a SUP until >10mph (9k).SupaEZ wrote: ... the Patrick Air Force Base windmeter reading (is) just a few miles upwind of Dimitri: Wind was SSW 200 degrees...that is why the ocean is so glassy...i should know i live here 30 years. He was out between 2 and 4 pm.... we see clearly that the wind was always more than........... 10 mph .......those are government's wind meters....very accurate...
Light Wind ShowdownUKSurf wrote:Why did Momi design an inferior kite for Blade? I honestly think this claiming your kites are superior to everyone else's will only backfire. If it is better at one thing then it will be worse at something else, most people appreciate that kite design these days is about finely balanced trade-offs NOT one kite being better than another.Dimitri M wrote:The difference from the INFINITY V2 vs the FAT LADY is that the INFINITY v2 turns faster and has better pop. But the power is piratically the same after testing them.
Now the INFINITY V3 is something different.
Kiteus Maximus wrote:Whatever dude. You created me. If you don't like me then stop creating me.
Of course, walking backwards with a kite is not a recognised way of testing its low-end, UNLESS you are making claims that it can fly in "2-4 knots". It would be EASY to test Epic's "2-4 knot" claim by putting up the Infinity in a school hall or similar & walking backwards at the standard walking velocity of 2.7 knots.Kite2Heaven wrote:PMU - you really are stupid if you are resorting to walking backwards with a kite !!! … Otherwise "ALL" wind readings are BULLSHIT just like yourself !!
Hi Dimitri. Why not take all of this as constructive criticism? Rather than trying to compete with all the other ~16m light-medium wind kites out there (e.g. Blade Fat Lady, Naish Fly, Dyno 17m, Ozone Edge 17m, etc), why not make a REAL light wind kite, e.g. a fast turning 21m kite???Dimitri M wrote:With all due respect Mr. Pumpy but did it ever occur to you that maybe you are the one who can't perform in these light wind conditions. A poor carpenter will blame his tools. I think you might need to get more kite experience to be able to perform in these light wind conditions because it has been proven so many times in how low wind the INFINITY v3 kite can perform. Now it is all up to you.
Mr.Pumpy, why do you think we are sold out of INFINITY kites!!! The only way to be able to make such a great kite such as the INFINITY kite is to be able to test all the other kites in the market and come up with something better, something faster and powerful that you can have a good time in light winds. So to answer your question we did take all this constructive criticism and came up with the INFINITY v1 two years ago, then v2 and now we are working on the INFINITY v3. So as you can see we are improving every time.Why not take all of this as constructive criticism? Rather than trying to compete with all the other ~16m light-medium wind kites out there (e.g. Blade Fat Lady, Naish Fly, Dyno 17m, Ozone Edge 17m, etc), why not make a REAL light wind kite, e.g. a fast turning 21m kite???
With your considerable marketing skills, flair for graphics, and undoubted interpersonal charm, you could really blow the light wind market apart with a TRUE light wind kite. You could create something that justifies the hype, that can actually backup (most of) your claims, and that will sell itself. Obviously there is a LOT of interest in light wind kiting at the moment and it's only set to grow. If you produce a truly great LW kite, you could dominate the marketplace.
kitewise wrote:Easy there boy! Obviously, You've got lots to say. You been on here 2 months and you have 85 posts!Kiteus Maximus wrote:PMU - Jesus dude...take your personal bullshit private. You clutter this place with non-stop BS. I'm guessing you are some old ass guy...who was a kiter when kiting first came around. And because you were one of the early kiters you somehow feel you have a right to act like a "fuckking dik" as OldnBroken so aptly put it.
Take your old busted ass down the road and bury yourself in the elephant graveyard. Oh yeah...don't forget to call me a Dimitri supporter. That's your weak ass excuse when you get your ass ripped on here by someone who goes against you.
Maybe you are just an inefficient kiter who HAS to have a 35 meter kite to get going in light winds and therefore call BS when you see LW claims made by others.
Maybe you should take a pill or grow up. Or maybe just shut up! Didn't mother ever teach you any manners? Evidently not.
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