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 Post subject: Speed 4 questions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:54 pm 
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I have been really excited about the Speed 4 and am waiting for the 12 meter to come out. During the past couple of weeks I have been reading all of the available reviews and viewing all of the videos available. I am having some concerns about the profile thickness. Comparing the Speed 4 to the Speed 3 the profile seems to be much fatter on the speed 4. If you go to the technical data on the Flysurfer website, the Speed 4 10 meter has less cells per length than the Speed 3 12 meter. That means that a Speed 4 12 meter will have even less cells per length unless they increase the number of cells for the bigger sizes. Usually less cells equates to a fatter profile which means the kite will sit further back in the window and have less upwind ability. The Speed 4 even has less cells per length than the Psycho 4, so does this mean that it will go upwind even less than the Psycho 4?
I was just wondering if anyone else has these concerns.


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 Post subject: Re: Speed 4 questions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:26 pm 
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Shawn K wrote:
If you go to the technical data on the Flysurfer website, the Speed 4 10 meter has less cells per length than the Speed 3 12 meter. That means that a Speed 4 12 meter will have even less cells per length unless they increase the number of cells for the bigger sizes. Usually less cells equates to a fatter profile which means the kite will sit further back in the window and have less upwind ability. The Speed 4 even has less cells per length than the Psycho 4, so does this mean that it will go upwind even less than the Psycho 4?
I was just wondering if anyone else has these concerns.


Hey Shawn. The Speed 4 has a smaller aspect ratio (4.85 on the Speed4 vs. 5.8 on the Speed3), so it makes sense that there would be less cells compared to the Speed3. I have owned Speed 3s and Psycho4s and have a Speed 4 now. The upwind of the Speed 4 is better than the Psycho 4 but maybe a little less than the Speed 3. In short, the upwind on the Speed 4 is great!

Shawn K wrote:
The Speed 4 even has less cells per length than the Psycho 4, so does this mean that it will go upwind even less than the Psycho 4?


Looking at the technical details on the FS website, both the Psycho 4 and the Speed 4 (in sizes 8M and 10M) have 29 cells. Given that the Psycho 4 has a slightly smaller aspect ratio (4.5 vs. 4.85), I guess you could say that the Speed 4 has less cells per length. But, I really doubt there is a noticeable difference. Although I only have about 7 hours on my Speed 4 now, I can say it's a step up from the Psycho 4!

Shawn K wrote:
I have been really excited about the Speed 4 and am waiting for the 12 meter to come out.


Keep being excited, it's sure to be a great kite.


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 Post subject: Re: Speed 4 questions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:00 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 3:22 am
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Location: PBKiteboarding.com Sales-Repair-Lessons Ozone, Aboards, Flysurfer, OR, Canada USA Worlwide
Great time on the 8m and all Speed 4's should be more power and better low end and upwind! than Psycho 4.
Keep the Dream going!! Guys are liking the 10m too and larger sizes to come sometime...

On the SP4 8m DLX here:

www.PBKiteboarding.com

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 Post subject: Re: Speed 4 questions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:33 pm 
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Thanks for your responses,

I do understand that the Speed 3 does have more cells than the Speed 4, but what I was trying to say was that if you divide the 39 cells of the Speed 3 12 meter by the span length of 831 cm you get .0469 cells per centimeter. Then taking 29 cells of the Speed 4 10 meter and dividing it by its length 696 cm you get .0416 cell per centimeter. Since the Speed 4 12 meter will be even longer, then the cells per centimeter will be even less which I think would make the profile fatter. I do like the idea of the decrease in aspect ratio in the Speed 4 because it seems like it makes it turn faster and I know that aspect ratio is correlated to upwind ability so it is natural to assume that the Speed 4 would have a bit less upwind ability than the Speed 3. I guess I was thinking that this combined with the fatter profile width would create an even bigger deficit in upwind ability. As long as it does like you say and goes upwind better than the Psycho 4 that is good enough for me, otherwise I might as well just get a Psycho 4 instead.

Again, thanks for the insight!


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 Post subject: Re: Speed 4 questions
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:08 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:25 pm
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Location: The Naki
yes i've heard speed 4 is lower aspect. it will probably still be higher aspect than anything else on the market.

As long as the glide is the same or better i'll be happy. I'll be super stoked if the 15m is condsiderably faster. then it will work better in my swell, current, white wash location in light wind. currently leis have the edge over the speed at my local as they can move faster and react better to the to retain speed over waves/whitewash.


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 Post subject: Re: Speed 4 questions
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:41 am 
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From all the videos I've seen the new speed seems to turn very fast. Hopefully that will carry over into the larger sizes.


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 Post subject: Re: Speed 4 questions
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:50 am 
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Location: POOR SATELLITE RECEPTION
I have to applaud Flysurfer for having the smarts to change the kite design slightly as the sizes change, in effort to achieve similar performance in the wind range of each size. I have only seen this one other time. You can't just zoom your computerized kite design in or out for different sizes and expect similar results.


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 Post subject: Re: Speed 4 questions
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:04 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:38 pm
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Agreed, I have been flying the new Speed 4 8m deluxe (THE LIGHTEST KITE IN THE WORLD?) for about 25 hours now mainly on the low end of the scale but boy it is quite a kite. I have had several FS kites and love the Speed 3 12m and 15m. Definitely has more traction than Psycho 4 of the same size and the new leading edge supports makes this kite so so stable, almost like an LEI. The bigger kites are really going to benefit from this for sure. I don't find this kite any fatter than the Speed 3 even with fewer cells, also over looked are the new inlet valves, they are stealth and very effective for what they do. A fine evolution of the breed, no question. A joy to fly :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: Speed 4 questions
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:19 am 
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Hey can you explain what you mean when you say that the kite design changes slightly as the size changes?


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 Post subject: Re: Speed 4 questions
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:55 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:53 am
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Location: POOR SATELLITE RECEPTION
Shawn K wrote:
Hey can you explain what you mean when you say that the kite design changes slightly as the size changes?


They have not released the Speed4 in the larger sizes yet because, as I understand, it will not be just a scaled up "'bigger' version of the 8m & 10m. The aspect ratio will likely be higher, closer to that of the current Speed3's.

My point was that they have a performance target for the line. The different sizes of the kite will be designed differently, to achieve consistent performance no matter the size of the kite.

Flysurfer has done this before, with the Psycho4, and if memory serves me correctly, Ocean Rodeo has also done this on some smaller kites, tweaked the design a bit in the smaller sizes to make them fly better.. Now that I think of it, I guess more than a few are doing this with their big light wind kites too...

Edited: meant higher, not lower


Last edited by The Captain on Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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