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 Post subject: Re: The biggest tube kite on the market, 21 mts
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:50 pm 
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Zeeko wrote:
The total weight is the kite (I just checked mine) is 3.650Kg which is very light for such size.
Ride easy,
Nicolas



SupaEZ likes also to ride easy :thumb:
Your kite's weight beats the twinskin foil SP3 21m2 that weighs 3.90kg :wink:

Please let me know who to contact in the USA for availability and cost complete kite+bar

Can we get that size (21) in those five color choices?

Does the leading edge have a speed valve inflation system direct to hose connect type.....
...for easy and fast inflation with hand pump?

Keep on riding faster than anyone else and easy Nicholas

Thanks/ Merci

Supa...LW wave rider from central east coast of Florida


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 Post subject: Re: The biggest tube kite on the market, 21 mts
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:11 pm 
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Posts: 84
About the speed valve, the kite haven't it.
1- the weight
2- all the valves I tested, I had trouble with.
Then the inflation is a regular one, but you have a deflation valve on tip to help you when you store the kite.

About color choice, I need to check the warehouse, and the shops butin our warehouse we should have no Blue Brown and no green white (available but need to be confirmed dark blue, dark pink and dark orange).

For availability, you have kitesurferstore.com in US or go directly to the ZEEKO website to find a dealer.

ride easy,
nicolas


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 Post subject: Re: The biggest tube kite on the market, 21 mts
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:04 pm 
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Location: Dublin, Ireland
A 21m Kite is to heavy to have good low end.

this is nothing new, you could get a 23m switchblade a few years back. also the guy in the video is usign a foil. so it s pointless.


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 Post subject: Re: The biggest tube kite on the market, 21 mts
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:22 pm 
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Location: Ford Lake, Michigan
Love it zeeko.

As for those who say there's no place for a 21m kite, hey if it's not your thing it's not your thing. I like being powered. Sure you can ride a 14m instead of a 21m in 10 knots but it's like driving a Yugo and trying to merge onto the expressway.

Big kites fell out of fashion for about 4 years, but they are coming back!


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 Post subject: Re: The biggest tube kite on the market, 21 mts
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:24 pm 
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Location: East Coast USA
4-12mph is your wind range for the 21m Lei?

Its Kind of Funny but I can Ride My FLYSURFER Speed 3.5 21m from a true 6mph(on water) and have ridden it to over 25mph on many ocassions. I even have customers 175lbs. using the 21m flysurfer on the snow in 25mph. Also I just used My 21m here on the beach in 2-5mph straight offshore wind in 2-3 inches of snow.

I love the Fact that the Inflatable companies are making Bigger kites but to me seems like they still have alot of work to do to get the windranges that Flysurfer has had for years...Ted B


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 Post subject: Re: The biggest tube kite on the market, 21 mts
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:09 pm 
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Wow, 3.6kg for a 21m inflatable! By far the lightest I know of. The lightest infaltables I could get 2 years ago was the blade vertigos, but my 14m is also 3.6kg (still one of the lightest inflatable kites I know of). What is the weight of your 14m Notus?

Also, how fast is the Notus through the wind window? What I found with my kites were that the 14m was too slow through the window, and did not give me any better low wind performance over my 10m kite when I use a hydrofoil.

On the video you are using a different foil to the zeeko makaira? Old video perhaps, or is the makaira not that good for light wind?


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 Post subject: Re: The biggest tube kite on the market, 21 mts
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:27 pm 
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Location: World (KF Admin)
The question is, if very light material is durable?


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 Post subject: Re: The biggest tube kite on the market, 21 mts
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:35 pm 
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Ted B wrote:
4-12mph is your wind range for the 21m Lei?

Its Kind of Funny but I can Ride My FLYSURFER Speed 3.5 21m from a true 6mph(on water) and have ridden it to over 25mph on many ocassions. I even have customers 175lbs. using the 21m flysurfer on the snow in 25mph. Also I just used My 21m here on the beach in 2-5mph straight offshore wind in 2-3 inches of snow.

I love the Fact that the Inflatable companies are making Bigger kites but to me seems like they still have alot of work to do to get the windranges that Flysurfer has had for years...Ted B


Inflatables are vastly superior to ram airs in light winds. A 21m inflatable could be the best of all. Reasons for the superiority of inflatables in LIGHT WINDS follow:

LIGHT WINDS
Ram airs are inferior light wind kites for the following reasons:
a) Excessive drag
(bridles, lack of internal rigidity, excessive friction at the "boundary layer", and trailing edge thickness), compromising the Lift/Drag ratio
b) VERY slow turning
c) Inertia. See above.
d) Bridle failures and tangling
e) Wind dropouts and gear failure
ALL kiters experiences a few gear failures (eg broken lines) and COMPLETE wind dropouts every year. Inflatables can be "sailed" (self-rescued) or swum to shore. If things are REALLY bad, the inflatable structure can support your weight, eg viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2368004

In contrast, ALL ram airs eventually become hopelessly waterlogged, un-relaunchable, and unable to support body weight.
eg viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2346569
eg viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2358958&p=608890#p608890
eg viewtopic.php?t=2359156&p=617396
eg viewtopic.php?t=2358602&p=704984
eg http://www.foilzone.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8130

The following is an example of "diraklib's" experience with ram airs in wind dropouts:
diraklib wrote:
"the SA-19 is huge and can whack you silly if you let it get down wind of you in a low wind launch. It is downright scary - be ready with the QR at all times if not up and riding!!! I can't say I agree with claims that you can ride the SA-19 in anything lower than a steady 8 knots. I made a personal choice to not ride the SA-19 any more. It went down twice in lulls and managed to bow-tie on the way down - there was no way to relaunch. I was not as lucky as others that self rescued. My kite was full of water by the time I dragged my very tired and frustrated a$$ to shore. It sounds simple, "wrap the lines around the bar, fold the kite in half, roll it up on your board and paddle in"... noooo... there are lines everywhere under water that wrap around your feet as you are trying to manipulate the kite. You just pray that a gust won't pop the kite up and slice of an appendage. The kite ... is just too scary when it goes down. My attitude now is - if my LEI won't fly, I shouldn't be on the water. Anyone interested in a slightly used SA2-19m??? Cheap???"
For the full epiphany, checkout viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2360979&start=40

The following is the experience of "pmaggie" with ram airs in wind dropouts:
pmaggie wrote:
I rode foils only a few times, so these are really my two cents. The problem I experieced with foils in very light wind when they suddenly fall. In my home spot, in very light wind days, sometimes the wind really goes to zero for 1 minute or so. When this happen, both foils and inflatables suddenly fall. In this cases, my inflatable, since it's far heavier than a foil, fall directly into the water with no line tangling and I just have to wait for a gust to relaunch (when possible, that means about 7 knots for my Core 17). When a foil falls with no wind, being very light, it's common that its lines roll over it and became completely tangled. At that point, it's not that easy to relaunch.
The other big problem with foils in very light wind is when the wind completely stops. With an inflatable, you just get your kite and swim attached to your little floating boat. With a foil, you have 20 sqm of tissue to carry home with you!
For the full story, checkout: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2376332

Here is the experience of "FredBGG" with a line failure:
FredBGG wrote:
The other day I had a front line fail.
Wind was slightly off shore...
I really needed a tow to the beach.
I had the kite safely on the 5th line folded in half (flysurfer Foil)
I waved down two kiters.... both expert judging by their riding.
Both refused to help.
One even yelled if you can't relaunch it's your problem.
Anyway after a difficult ordeal in the surf and current I got back to the beach.
I had to rest a bit but my board was still out there.
For the full admission viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2362065
The problem here isn't with the other kiters, it's with Fred's choice of kite. If Fred had an inflatable, he would have been able to "self-rescue" by grabbing the tips and "sailing" to shore. The other kiters refusing to help is understandable: Fred opted for less safe equipment. It's his problem and he shouldn't impose on others to make up for his equipment deficiencies. Also, towing a ram air to shore is like towing a sleeping bag full of water - difficult and dangerous.

f) 8 knot limit
Despite the lies of ram lovers, you won't really get going on any kite (ram air OR inflatable) unless the wind is over ~ 7-8 knots and won't really have fun until ~ 10 knots.

This video may prove the 7-8 knot low limit. Both kites - the 21m Flysurfer and the smaller (?17m) inflatable are FAILING TO STAY UPWIND and, by the look of the flag, there's about ? (hard to say) 8 knots of wind.

It's interesting to note that the ram air and the inflatable are both struggling IN SIMILAR CONDITIONS.

Ram lovers have been shown to lie repeatedly about their light wind capabilities:
eg "jumping 8m in 8 knots" viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6349
eg viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2350141&p=539227#p539227
eg
gmb13 wrote:
My Speed 3 19 DL gives up under 5 knots... - Gunnar Biniasch
Wind moving at <7 knots (13km/h) simply cannot deliver enough power for ANY kite to perform; certainly NO KITE WILL PERFORM AT 5 KNOTS. Gunnar's exaggerations can be found at viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2361421

g) Objective Testing
A variety of kites were tested in a "Light Wind Showdown" in San Diego viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2319439&hilit=ram+airs+crash+in+san+diego . Despite the over-hyped claims from the U.S. Flysurfer rep, Ted Bautista, Flysurfer ram airs crashed and burned. The overall consensus was that ram air kites are ok in light wind, but turn VERY SLOWLY. The overall impression was that there are much better inflatables.

h ) BIG INFLATABLES are better than BIG FLYSURFERS in Light Winds

See this thread about the poor light wind properties of Flysurfer viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2349064 , in particular:
gobigkahuna wrote:
I read all the same reports and reviews that everyone else here probably read and spent the "big bucks" for the S2-19, but to be honest was extremely disappointed and sold it…Flysurfers just plain suck in gusty, light winds…I had a hard time keeping the thing in the air much less getting enough power from it to go on the water… A couple months later I got an 07 Waroo 20m…and it is the best 20m I've ever flown. I am able to fly it in winds I would never have thought possible.
i) Peter Frank's opinion
Peter Frank, a well respected commentator on the sport, says 8-9 knots is the bare minimum viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2365531
Peter_Frank wrote:
Night_Thrasher wrote:
What is the lowest wind condition I can go kitesurfing and what is the best kite brand and size for it?
It depends a lot on your weight, how low you can go.
If you are "average" around 80kg, the lowest you can go will be around 5m/s (10knots) with the right kite and board.
If you are REALLY experienced, you will be able to push the lower limit down to about 8-9 knots, but this is the absolute lowest wind possible to kitesurf in (holding ground/going upwind) with average weight IMO.
And talking about EXACTLY how "low you can go" is just pure bullshit - as you can not measure the windspeed at the kite, which is the only true value for this.
Sometimes you have a huge windgradient, sometimes a small one, and air temperature and height also influences.
But around 10knots is the limit for most kitesurfers, and just a small tad lower for the "extreme" ones :thumb:
When you talk about windspeed - where is it measured then ?
At headheight, maybe around 2 meter above the water ?
Or at 10 meter height, which is our (Denmark) meterological standard height for wind measurements ?
There is a difference of typical 2 knots, so VERY important.
My point is - always take those claiming "this and that" as their minimum wind speed with a grain of salt :roll:
8) Peter


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 Post subject: Re: The biggest tube kite on the market, 21 mts
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:16 pm 
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i would love a foil board one day!!!...

Seems like big leis are getting better and better.

As far as ultra light wind is conserned i still love my foil. Why. unroll that bastard and fly. no pumping required. means a quick 40-50 min lunch time session is a viable option.

but each to there own. most my light wind session are on the land. foils are soooo much easilier to launch and land on land and get damaged heaps less than leis.


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 Post subject: Re: The biggest tube kite on the market, 21 mts
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:24 pm 
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plummet wrote:
get damaged heaps less than leis.


not if you put your kite in a tree


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