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 Post subject: Re: What Did You Pay?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:06 pm 
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Tiago1973 wrote:
around here almost all/lot´s of brand dealers do not do not own a shop

i´ll pay in advance for the kite, the guy place the order and deal with the paper work, i´ll wait 3 or 4 weeks or maybe more (as there is no stock) and that´s it

where is the risk of this kind of operation and how much does this worth?

9% of profit margin is perfectly reasonable to me

There selling out of a car,if they get 9% there making more than i am,the call that the black economy,nothing fucks a country faster,or economy, than this sort of shit,TONY


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 Post subject: Re: What Did You Pay?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:09 pm 
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UKSurf wrote:
w_ndrunner wrote:
once the actual dealer cost is established and known then the buyer can negotiate a reasonable mark up between 4 and 9 percent...


I totally agree with you. If you run a kite shop you should not do it to make money, you should do it because you enjoy it. You should not rely on selling kites to make a living, they should have an extra job ontop of it.

Could please tell us what you work at,thanks TONY


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 Post subject: Re: What Did You Pay?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:21 pm 
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Location: Tennessee
It is just human nature to want to spend as little money as possible when buying things, and making as much as possible when selling things. No one I know thinks they have too much money.

Kite shops (to me) are different from most other businesses I deal with because of the service they provide. When I travel, I always make a visit to the local kite shop, and usually buy something. Unless the place is crowded (and they rarely are) I always end up getting good information on the local area and kite spots as well as learn something new about equipment I haven't tried. I am always intrigued by the different methods and oppinions of brands you get when you go to a new area.

I also usually find that when it comes to new gear, a shop can also get you a better deal than you can get online, and when they can't, they usually spice up the deal with board bags or accessories that you are going to buy anyway.

I have yet to go to any kiteshop that the people were not friendly and helpful, and more importantly as obsessed with kiteboarding as I am. :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: What Did You Pay?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:24 pm 
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I would buy from my local shop but the main guy there is a bit of a dick head. Because he is lacking in personality I choose to take my business to the web. Prices in the US are higher than prices in Europe yet the kite mfg cost is still the same. In the US we do have some negotiating room. Most of the the US shops who sell gear on-line are within $10 to $50 of each other at any given time. So no major savings. Some shops offer added give-aways to sweeten the sale of a new kite. Some offer buy back programs within the first year as a trade in allowance on a new kite. This is actually really smart because it allows heavy kite users to trade out their gear every year and puts more newer used equipment back into the secondary market for guys just starting out.

Whoever said negotiating is a cultural thing hasn't traveled much. You can negotiate all over the world. Everyone negotiates. If you don't then you are an inexperienced buyer.

There is only one secret to success in selling low margin product. Volume, volume, volume. You get to high volume sales by providing competitive pricing (not necessarily the cheapest) coupled with the best customer service possible.


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 Post subject: Re: What Did You Pay?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:39 pm 
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No local Shops equals limited access to demos which equals crew having to rely on review from the manufacturers, friends and people on line such as here. If that's what we want then buy online. Good luck! That's the service part that someone was talking about with the auto trade.


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 Post subject: Re: What Did You Pay?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:44 pm 
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Yeah kiteboarding has TONS of volume! :roll:
It's a relatively new sport with a small user base, and the equipment evolves/depreciates at a ridiculous rate. How do you crush volume in kiteboarding gear with parameters like this? Kiting isn't exactly mainstream or a necessity. (components typical for volume) Additionally, you have a pretty fickle buyer that perceives gear to be worth 1/2 the price once it's model successor is released.(generalization...........but you get the idea.)

Honestly I can't imagine a tougher type of equipment to sell on a retail level. I think some of you aren't seeing the big picture and empathizing with someone doing this for a living.
I thank god I don't sell this stuff....I have a good friend that used to. It's pretty bad when you can't even get cost back out of a NEW kite just because the new model year got released 4 months after he took on his inventory. It's crazy.

(Now if your local dealer is a jerk, then obviously the world is free trade and you can buy from whomever you like. But if your local shop is good, I would make the effort to work with them, even if it costs a few more dollars. And let's face it, if you're a kiter, you're probably not destitute......Pleading poverty in kiteboarding is weaksauce.)


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 Post subject: Re: What Did You Pay?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:58 pm 
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tony montana wrote:
UKSurf wrote:
w_ndrunner wrote:
once the actual dealer cost is established and known then the buyer can negotiate a reasonable mark up between 4 and 9 percent...


I totally agree with you. If you run a kite shop you should not do it to make money, you should do it because you enjoy it. You should not rely on selling kites to make a living, they should have an extra job ontop of it.

Could please tell us what you work at,thanks TONY


I work as an advisor to people running small businesses like kitesurf shops on how to create opportunities. I am well aware that Kitesurf shops need to diversify into the services to make up for the low but realistic margins w_ndrunner is talking about. To survive on a 7% average margin you need to be creative. A few ideas I have suggested to my local kitesurf shop involves charging small amounts to pump up peoples kites for them on the beach, or washing down their kites for them when they come off water. There are also lots of ways a kitesurf shop can save money, for example only turning the lights on when you have a customer. Remember 5% of something is more than 30% of nothing.


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 Post subject: Re: What Did You Pay?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:24 am 
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tony montana wrote:
Tiago1973 wrote:
around here almost all/lot´s of brand dealers do not do not own a shop

i´ll pay in advance for the kite, the guy place the order and deal with the paper work, i´ll wait 3 or 4 weeks or maybe more (as there is no stock) and that´s it

where is the risk of this kind of operation and how much does this worth?

9% of profit margin is perfectly reasonable to me

There selling out of a car,if they get 9% there making more than i am,the call that the black economy,nothing fucks a country faster,or economy, than this sort of shit,TONY


not black market as I should assume those guys pay their taxes. guess they just got a leaner operation

if it is perceived as unfair by those who own a proper shop and all that (or even if it is black market) then I see it as something that should be fixed within the brands/distributors/dealers community. believe great part of the issue it´s there before blaming the customer to fight for a better deal

overall agree with Poacher - is not a volume business and it´s a tough environment, no one getting rich


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 Post subject: Re: What Did You Pay?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:40 am 
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Quote:
I totally agree with you. If you run a kite shop you should not do it to make money, you should do it because you enjoy it. You should not rely on selling kites to make a living, they should have an extra job ontop of it.


If this is an opinion on business ethics I think its very short sighted. But if its career advice from dad or a business owner it hits the nail on the head.

Its been 2 decades since I've worked retail. In one situation I worked for a shop that sold sports equipment that I was passionate about. I was furious when I found out what the margins 50%. But the owner told under no certain terms if I wanted to open a shop it should be because I love the sport and not for money, because there are easier ways to make money.

Quote:
once the actual dealer cost is established and known then the buyer can negotiate a reasonable mark up between 4 and 9 percent...


I can't even imagine how hard it must be to sell enough kites at 9% or 30% just to make rent for a store front. How about somebody to answer the phone and run the cash register? Design the website? Pay for hosting? Credit card fees? Have you ever seen a commercial phone bill? My 800 number costs me $1000 a month. I love it when it rings but I'm not selling just a handful of kites. How about returns and warranty work. And then theres the taxes you've probably never heard of like the FUTA, SUTA, state franchise tax, and ad-valorem tax.

Seriously you think 9% is fair? Would you risk your cash and bust your ass in hopes of a 9% return?

Don't get me wrong, shopping for the best deal for you is fair game, but telling somebody else how to run their business is out of line.


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 Post subject: Re: What Did You Pay?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:36 am 
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interesting discussion. Theres no bricks and mortor shop here. Just dudes selling kites out of their van and then working a normal day job. But the local market of 30-40 kiters is way to small to sustain a shop.

Anyway the cold hard reality of sales is that some people will be prepaired to pay the full price and some will not. The good saleman can add value and sell the product and also discern how much the customer is prepaired to pay and offer him an appropriate deal.

If you get mad at the guy whose bought the wet suit online and not from your shop then start to look in the mirror and question your own sales ability.

Yes 5% of something is still better than 30% of nothing.

I'm not suggesting that a shop drops its pants and sells at low margins. i'm suggesting that you need to upskill and learn how to find ways to sell that product to the bargin hunter. yourve goto get cunning and work out ways to draw the customer to you.

I like the kite inflation idea if you have a shop at the beach. buy my kite at full retail and get a years worth of free kite inflation.
live weather station and webcam... if you buy a kite of me heres a password to my private live online weather station and webcam....


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