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What force gives you maximum height after pop?

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Top Down Causation
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Re: What force gives you maximum height after pop?

Postby Top Down Causation » Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:08 am

Maximum height is achieved when you simultaneously release the stored kinetic energy built up in the kite through board speed, edge release, and the position of the kite in the wind window where you sheet in once you have sent the kite.

Kite size, shape, board size, shape, etc...all play a relevant factor in achievable height based on THAT specific gear but it ultimately comes down to perfect timing regardless of the gear you are rigged with. Practice the simultaneous release of the stored kinetic energy and you will achieve maximum boost height every time.

AndrewJMcGee
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Re: What force gives you maximum height after pop?

Postby AndrewJMcGee » Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:05 am

Strong wind!!!!!! Wind strong enough to make you think twice before lift off.

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Peter_Frank
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Re: What force gives you maximum height after pop?

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:17 am

Top Down Causation wrote:Maximum height is achieved when you simultaneously release the stored kinetic energy built up in the kite through board speed, edge release, and the position of the kite in the wind window where you sheet in once you have sent the kite.

Kite size, shape, board size, shape, etc...all play a relevant factor in achievable height based on THAT specific gear but it ultimately comes down to perfect timing regardless of the gear you are rigged with. Practice the simultaneous release of the stored kinetic energy and you will achieve maximum boost height every time.


Sorry to say, but this is wrong :-?

You dont "store" kinetic energy in the kite (nor lines nor board or anything)

For some reason this is a common misconception, that we "store" energy above ourselves, when jumping.
Easy to understand why most go wrong here, as the more tension, the higher we get - so it definitely FEELS like we store energy in the kite system 8)

But we dont...

The only significant energy is our kinetic energy, which is our speed relative to the reference.
And the reason why we jump higher with a parked kite or in a cable park when "loaded", is because more tension (force) means more speed (more kinetic energy) and a better pendulum release away from the line direction :thumb:

No biggie that this is not understood maybe, but in some cases it makes a huge difference.

Apart from that, you are (all) correct in your observations I think 8) - it is just the "stored energy" thing that is very wrong eventhough many believe it is so :roll:


Someone mentioned that the bar did not necessarily move up when doing cable park jumps.
This is not the cause why you can jump, and in fact the bar could just as well move up as it could stay fixed, no difference in height (or energy tranfer) whatsoever.
The only difference is, that when you do a typical wake jump, it looks much better if you do it with the bar as an anchor point so it will give a stylish arched upward railey :rollgrin:
If you just jumped the same way, but took the bar up with you - you would get the same body height over water - but it would just look "lame" :wink:

:D Peter

Kite2Heaven
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Re: What force gives you maximum height after pop?

Postby Kite2Heaven » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:32 am

Taking all the bits into account, at "warp" speed on flatwater with No ramps... Their is also another technique to jumping big without goin over the handle bars. Ahhh the joys of learning :)

g00se
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Re: What force gives you maximum height after pop?

Postby g00se » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:45 am

Have found myself thinking about this quite a lot when out on the water.

I'm convinced most of the height (when popping without sending kite or using a wave) is created by the pendulum effect.

The faster you are travelling when you suddenly change direction against the kite, the more swing you will get. Together with the push of the legs and release from the water, this gives you the additional height.

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Peter_Frank
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Re: What force gives you maximum height after pop?

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:57 am

g00se wrote:Have found myself thinking about this quite a lot when out on the water.

I'm convinced most of the height (when popping without sending kite or using a wave) is created by the pendulum effect.

The faster you are travelling when you suddenly change direction against the kite, the more swing you will get. Together with the push of the legs and release from the water, this gives you the additional height.


Exactly :thumb:

And one of the reasons you will have a somewhat limited max height, is because (with a kite) when you pop only, you dont change forward (nor upwind) speed that much during the jump - as you would if you send the kite - thus not changing the same amount of kinetic energy to height.

This gives you, on the other hand, a really cool fluid fast wakestyle with SPEED in the landing, and not as much drift downwind, so ups and downs :rollgrin:

:D Peter

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Re: What force gives you maximum height after pop?

Postby William Munney » Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:23 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Top Down Causation wrote:Maximum height is achieved when you simultaneously release the stored kinetic energy built up in the kite through board speed, edge release, and the position of the kite in the wind window where you sheet in once you have sent the kite.

Kite size, shape, board size, shape, etc...all play a relevant factor in achievable height based on THAT specific gear but it ultimately comes down to perfect timing regardless of the gear you are rigged with. Practice the simultaneous release of the stored kinetic energy and you will achieve maximum boost height every time.


Sorry to say, but this is wrong :-?

You dont "store" kinetic energy in the kite (nor lines nor board or anything)

For some reason this is a common misconception, that we "store" energy above ourselves, when jumping.
Easy to understand why most go wrong here, as the more tension, the higher we get - so it definitely FEELS like we store energy in the kite system 8)

But we dont...

The only significant energy is our kinetic energy, which is our speed relative to the reference.
And the reason why we jump higher with a parked kite or in a cable park when "loaded", is because more tension (force) means more speed (more kinetic energy) and a better pendulum release away from the line direction :thumb:

No biggie that this is not understood maybe, but in some cases it makes a huge difference.

Apart from that, you are (all) correct in your observations I think 8) - it is just the "stored energy" thing that is very wrong even though many believe it is so :roll:




:D Peter


Yes, it is not a bungee cord.


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