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 Post subject: Board question
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:11 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:27 am
Posts: 263
Hi,

I pretty much only ride my strapped directional now (SS Pit 5'6"), which I boost and surf. I like the floaty, surfy feel way more than my North Jaime 132 twintip. I would like to add a twin tip or a mutant to my quiver but not sure what direction to go in. Basically I want a twintip or mutant that has some floaty-ness and surfy-ness to it but that can still boost and pop well. I am 6'1" and 190lbs. I think my Jaime is too small for me, which is why I never ride it. I have ridden the SS Fuse and liked it but they do not make it anymore. I have ridden the Ocean Rodeo Mako but didn't like the lack of pop or boost-ability to it. Any thoughts?

JP


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 Post subject: Re: Board question
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:20 am 
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Posts: 146
Everyone has their preferences in boards based on what they are looking for. I like maximum amount of flex which lends to better pop and smoother landings. Nobile 50Fifty, Nobile 2HD and the Cabrinha Custom come to mind for these two attributes I like.

Had a Mako for a little while but like you said there was no pop. Great in chop but not really a boosting kinda board.


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 Post subject: Re: Board question
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:36 am 
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Posts: 125
IMHO there are two TT's that stand out in combination of comfort and performance
1- Fone Trax
2- Xenon LaLuz

These two boards eat chop and give a very comfortable feeling but deliver great speed and pop and nice landings.


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 Post subject: Re: Board question
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:45 pm 
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Kiteus Maximus wrote:
.....I like maximum amount of flex which lends to better pop......


I like your ass but i disagree with your statement. Stiffer boards pop better than flexy boards IMO. But as you say, everybody has their own preferences :)


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 Post subject: Re: Board question
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:36 pm 
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Stiff boards do not pop better than boards that flex. The point of a flexible board is to transfer the build up of kinetic energy from edging to the tail of the board which flexes and then releases that stored energy as you release the edge. A stiff board that does not flex transfers no additional kinetic energy to the release of the edge which in turn means less pop.

Look at it this way. If you had 2 baseball bats that were identical except one would flex when you swing and one would not flex. If you were to hit a baseball at exactly the same swing speed with each bat the flexible bat will snap forward at a point where it releases its stored kinetic energy from the motion of the swing and will increase your overall impact speed. (The point it releases its stored energy is the point where the forward motion of the swing is less than the stored energy).

At this point the bat will flex forward and ADD speed to your impact speed.

If you could swing a bat 30 mph and the kinetic energy of the flexible bat adds an additional 10 mph of speed then you would be hitting the baseball with 40 mph of swing speed while only swinging 30 mph versus the non flexing bat that is hitting the ball at a 30 mph swing speed.

Same thing applies with a flexible TT versus a rigid TT that does not flex.

kas911 wrote:
Kiteus Maximus wrote:
.....I like maximum amount of flex which lends to better pop......


I like your ass but i disagree with your statement. Stiffer boards pop better than flexy boards IMO. But as you say, everybody has their own preferences :)


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 Post subject: Re: Board question
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:43 pm 
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Posts: 263
Wow "Sunny Buns" :D Excellent description and analogy. This will certainly help my research. At the end of the day, I think I lost my enjoyment of TTing simply because I am on too small of a board :( I am 6'1", 190lbs and am on the 2009 North Jaime 132. Another waste of $700??? I will certainly check out the Nobile boards and the Cab Custom and stick to the Try Before you Buy rule. What size do you think I should be riding?

JP


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 Post subject: Re: Board question
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:54 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:52 am
Posts: 127
Well your analogy still sucks because nothing is "RIGID".

a limp noodle board will deform outside of an ideal riding shape when you load it up, and the energy coming out of it as it regains its shape will be minimal.

a perfect stiffness board will deform just enough to store up the energy, but not so much it bends in half and starts to bog down because of the shape. then you have max energy stored in the overall system.

a overly stiff board for your strength & ability will not allow you to load up enough into the board.

to the OP if you're 6' 190 and riding a 132 there is your problem right there. I'm 5'7 155 (in street clothes) and ride a 142. I will not ride a board smaller than 138.

just to put my plug in, airush livewire 142 :)


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 Post subject: Re: Board question
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:05 pm 
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I must say, I dont think anyone of you are right here :-?

I have no facts (yet) about this, but the stored energy in the board would be almost nothing at all IMO, so a too soft and too stiff versus a medium soft board, does not contribute to "energy" in any significant level whatsoever IMO.

I think (I dont know exactly, I admit, just my intuition and experience) that the difference is purely the dynamics of "correct" flex for a given board in given conditions (and maybe for a given rider too), will allow you to make the most efficient pop that gives you the best release and takeoff :thumb:

So just as with kites and waveboards and everything else almost - I think it is the overall combination of physics and dynamics that is essential for giving the best (individual) board, so not about stored energy really, but all about getting a clean harmonic dynamic feel in the board, when you load and release :rollgrin:

Just my thoughts...

:D Peter

PS: I think I know exactly what you "miss" in TT's now you've become a directional addict !
I got it the same way, and had to move to a bit wider and more flat TT that went higher upwind and going early, as it felt useless to just go back and fourth with a "mini" board in order to make ONE huge jump, and then back and fourth again....
But I found, that going for more voluminous TT's were not the way - simply choosing some that went a bit better upwind (flatter, wider, straighter lines), was my "new" solution.
Personal taste, I know - as of course a more curved board feels way more "directional" like and smooth, in tight carves - but on the other hand, you GOT a directional for that - so what you miss on your TT is most likely the ability to go upwind really well ? (or just me ?)


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 Post subject: Re: Board question
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:10 am 
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Posts: 146
I was assuming you knew I wasn't talking about a limp noodle board which would have no stored energy. The point was another poster said stiffer boards pop better than more flexible boards which is untrue. I've ridden stiff boards which have almost zero flexibility compared to others and the pop is a night and day difference.

BTW...what board are you talking about that flexes so much you would consider it a limp noodle? Never ridden one I would classify as limp.

DirkGently wrote:
Well your analogy still sucks because nothing is "RIGID".

a limp noodle board will deform outside of an ideal riding shape when you load it up, and the energy coming out of it as it regains its shape will be minimal.

a perfect stiffness board will deform just enough to store up the energy, but not so much it bends in half and starts to bog down because of the shape. then you have max energy stored in the overall system.

a overly stiff board for your strength & ability will not allow you to load up enough into the board.

to the OP if you're 6' 190 and riding a 132 there is your problem right there. I'm 5'7 155 (in street clothes) and ride a 142. I will not ride a board smaller than 138.

just to put my plug in, airush livewire 142 :)


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 Post subject: Re: Board question
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:19 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:37 pm
Posts: 146
The part below where you say you "have no facts"...is where you should have stopped. This is basic physics. This isn't an "opinion" discussion. It's physics 101.

Just research kinetic energy. Energy of motion.

If you want to debate the optimal level of flex in a board to provide the optimal amount of pop then that's a different story. Bottom line is a stiff board does not provide better pop than a board with more (the right amount) of flex.

Peter_Frank wrote:
I must say, I dont think anyone of you are right here :-?

I have no facts (yet) about this, but the stored energy in the board would be almost nothing at all IMO, so a too soft and too stiff versus a medium soft board, does not contribute to "energy" in any significant level whatsoever IMO.

I think (I dont know exactly, I admit, just my intuition and experience) that the difference is purely the dynamics of "correct" flex for a given board in given conditions (and maybe for a given rider too), will allow you to make the most efficient pop that gives you the best release and takeoff :thumb:

So just as with kites and waveboards and everything else almost - I think it is the overall combination of physics and dynamics that is essential for giving the best (individual) board, so not about stored energy really, but all about getting a clean harmonic dynamic feel in the board, when you load and release :rollgrin:

Just my thoughts...

:D Peter

PS: I think I know exactly what you "miss" in TT's now you've become a directional addict !
I got it the same way, and had to move to a bit wider and more flat TT that went higher upwind and going early, as it felt useless to just go back and fourth with a "mini" board in order to make ONE huge jump, and then back and fourth again....
But I found, that going for more voluminous TT's were not the way - simply choosing some that went a bit better upwind (flatter, wider, straighter lines), was my "new" solution.
Personal taste, I know - as of course a more curved board feels way more "directional" like and smooth, in tight carves - but on the other hand, you GOT a directional for that - so what you miss on your TT is most likely the ability to go upwind really well ? (or just me ?)


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