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 Post subject: Re: Warning: if you try sliding hook you will never go back.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:26 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 6:18 am
Posts: 383
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
I just chickenloop right on to the the rope no rings, no pullies. I slipped on some tubing on to the rope and the chickenloop slides nicely on it. I have the rope so that the apex protrudes about the length of the hook. This keeps the depower throw /trim the same and the geometry only changes (but to a lesser degree when compared to pulley /ring setups) when riding toeside or when the checkenloop is slid all the way to the side.

.


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 Post subject: Re: Warning: if you try sliding hook you will never go back.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:15 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:39 pm
Posts: 2801
Starsky wrote:
jaystore wrote:
Contribution to the discussion is welcome and bricolage should be posted in the "handmade" section. Ask Toby to open it!



I admire your entrepreneurial spirit and applaud your bringing a polished product to market, but that last bit.... THIS is a forum. Your are welcome to advertise but no single thread is an advertisement and any attempt to make it so is unwelcome.

I would never have posted these without that post:

Here is a super clean super safe DIY version that is every bit as slick as commercially available products, cost is about $60. Mostly for the high end snap shackle that has a working load of 880 kg a breaking load of 1500 kg and swivels. Do your research on shackles. This is the safest option for kiting. Photos show minimal mods to a standard dakine spreader bar pad and can be done inside a half hour if you know what your doing. I run a dedicated short line wave bar as shown and a regular commercial bar for unhooking/fixed hook twin tip riding. Shorter QR set up than standard chicken loop + hook means less loss of sheeting range when using slider. Slider line and ring stow cleanly. Tie downs at bottom stop spreader bar from flipping and are tied through pad. Fixed hook does not interfere in any way with sliding system or its safety. Leash is to mini 5th or single line flag that is independent of sliding system should it fail in any way.

Aloha.


Nice setup!

I have one of those Wichards and it requires very little force to trigger the release. Do you find it ever triggers accidentally?


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 Post subject: Re: Warning: if you try sliding hook you will never go back.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 12:12 pm
Posts: 1214
Location: Ontario
The shackle has never gone off unintentionally. I rode with it for a while a couple of years back when I first got it and that is the bulk of my personal experience with it. I just dug it out and whipped that together on the weekend. Rode it Sunday in 6m weather and will keep it for a while. The black toggle is oriented up for easy access and to keep it out of the way of leash and fixed hook. I could see it releasing if you fell on your face in the sand and landed on top of it with enough forward momentum. Monster surf could do the same. Both instances where its not such a draw back. The length of the line that runs through the black toggle is critical for determining release sensitivity. Too short and it would go off with a light directional bump. Too long and you have to physically find it and pull it away from you. There is a happy medium that stays where you know you can find it but you have to hit it with intentional appropriate direction. I certainly paid attention to that and really encourage anyone who goes this route to test until they are satisfied. I ran stiffer Q-power line through it into a smaller stopper so the large toggle spins very freely and does not release with a glancing tap. Shackles are not all equal, and there are a many that are just not up to the task of kiting. This particular one has been vetted by the first few generations of kiters out there and is still in use amongst other traction kite groups. A little research and you will find your way to it. It's a wichard, and that particular one was chosen precisely for its release mechanism. Side pull ones can be jammed by really high loads and siezed by salt and sand. If your not going to get the right one then go with a method that uses your stock chicken loop as your release.


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 Post subject: Re: Warning: if you try sliding hook you will never go back.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:06 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:27 am
Posts: 210
Location: Rome
Starsky wrote:
jaystore wrote:
Contribution to the discussion is welcome and bricolage should be posted in the "handmade" section. Ask Toby to open it!



I admire your entrepreneurial spirit and applaud your bringing a polished product to market, but that last bit.... THIS is a forum. Your are welcome to advertise but no single thread is an advertisement and any attempt to make it so is unwelcome.

I would never have posted these without that post:

Here is a super clean super safe DIY version that is every bit as slick as commercially available products, cost is about $60. Mostly for the high end snap shackle that has a working load of 880 kg a breaking load of 1500 kg and swivels. Do your research on shackles. This is the safest option for kiting. Photos show minimal mods to a standard dakine spreader bar pad and can be done inside a half hour if you know what your doing. I run a dedicated short line wave bar as shown and a regular commercial bar for unhooking/fixed hook twin tip riding. Shorter QR set up than standard chicken loop + hook means less loss of sheeting range when using slider. Slider line and ring stow cleanly. Tie downs at bottom stop spreader bar from flipping and are tied through pad. Fixed hook does not interfere in any way with sliding system or its safety. Leash is to mini 5th or single line flag that is independent of sliding system should it fail in any way.


Aloha.


We don't only advertise, we inform users about this new product. We didn't just bring a polished product to market, we are luckily the first company who had the madness to invent a working sliding hook solution. We are proud of making happy a lot of kiters who are paying us back by supporting and promoting our products just because they give them a real benefit.

However we will be happy to send you a DYNABAR for free, you save 60$ and have the opportunity to compare DYNABAR with your proto and make a review on the forum 8)

Greetings from Rome.


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 Post subject: Re: Warning: if you try sliding hook you will never go back.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 12:12 pm
Posts: 1214
Location: Ontario
Hard to say no to that!

Would gladly compare.

PM me if your serious.


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 Post subject: Re: Warning: if you try sliding hook you will never go back.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:18 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:27 am
Posts: 210
Location: Rome
Starsky wrote:
Hard to say no to that!

Would gladly compare.

PM me if your serious.


I PM you to confirm I'm serious.


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 Post subject: Re: Warning: if you try sliding hook you will never go back.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:38 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 3:57 am
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jaystore wrote:
However we will be happy to send you a DYNABAR for free, you save 60$ and have the opportunity to compare DYNABAR with your proto and make a review on the forum 8)

Greetings from Rome.


LOL!
Obviously, you didn't like my review...


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 Post subject: Re: Warning: if you try sliding hook you will never go back.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:48 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:17 am
Posts: 2001
Location: Save a life...adopt a Pitbull
Starsky wrote:
Shackles are not all equal, and there are a many that are just not up to the task of kiting. This particular one has been vetted by the first few generations of kiters out there and is still in use amongst other traction kite groups. A little research and you will find your way to it. It's a wichard, and that particular one was chosen precisely for its release mechanism. Side pull ones can be jammed by really high loads and seized by salt and sand. If your not going to get the right one then go with a method that uses your stock chicken loop as your release.
So this Wichard model is not related in any way, to the shackles that were causing so much trouble tens years ago?

Here is my reinforced Jay swivel hook system.
Bent the one they sold me, now it is much stronger.


Attachments:
Jay4.jpg
Jay4.jpg [ 311.38 KIB | Viewed 363 times ]
Jay3.jpg
Jay3.jpg [ 135.64 KIB | Viewed 363 times ]
Jay2.jpg
Jay2.jpg [ 166.97 KIB | Viewed 363 times ]
Jay1.jpg
Jay1.jpg [ 216.96 KIB | Viewed 363 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Warning: if you try sliding hook you will never go back.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:04 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:28 am
Posts: 277
I have the same wichard shackle, I used it in the old days from about 2000 to 2004 when we used to shackle ourselves in. It then laid in my garden in all weathers til 2010 when I started using it on a sliding bar set up.

simple, effective, never let me down.

I use it on the dynabar, rope.

mike


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 Post subject: Re: Warning: if you try sliding hook you will never go back.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:26 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 11:48 pm
Posts: 337
Starsky wrote:
Here is a super clean super safe DIY version that is every bit as slick as commercially available products, cost is about $60. Mostly for the high end snap shackle that has a working load of 880 kg a breaking load of 1500 kg and swivels.

Attachment:
with QR shackle.jpg
with QR shackle.jpg [ 124.69 KIB | Viewed 305 times ]

My only concern with the large plastic ball is how easily incidental contact may cause the snap to open. It does not take much to release one of those snaps.

Why not turn the snap around so it is on your sliding line? this way you could use the same snap/QR on multiple bars with a ring for a chicken loop.
Attachment:
bar.jpg
bar.jpg [ 79.12 KIB | Viewed 305 times ]


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