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 Post subject: Re: Size of light wind board?
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 5:19 am 
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Location: PBKiteboarding.com Sales-Repair-Lessons Ozone, Aboards, Flysurfer, OR, Canada USA Worlwide
Remember if you are heavy or if the wind is light.
Not fun is going downwind and walking up the beach.
Also not fun is to small a board so you only have enough power to go back and forth.
Unless that's what you like...

To progress you have to be able to stay upwind since whenever you jump or try tricks or even toeside, you end up going downwind and then have to come back up. or do the walk. The thing I most dislike, should be kiting not walking....

So reality is that "if lighter winds or heavier rider" or
on a smaller board or kite underpowered.... are the kiters who can only go back and forth.
The True mowing the lawn....

Depending on your wind and weight... I see lots of guys struggling under powered and not fun for many of us.... the worst is not kiting.. Under powered we all look like beginners. Some even give up.... No one told them the board was too small. or didn't have one available so they get what they have.

Paul
www.PBKiteboarding.com


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 Post subject: Re: Size of light wind board?
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 4:35 pm 
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Location: PBKiteboarding.com Sales-Repair-Lessons Ozone, Aboards, Flysurfer, OR, Canada USA Worlwide
Here is the "Fin"Tastic Power I use with the Flyrace Center fin on a 12m in lighter winds....
Many customers are getting addicted to this board and I'm making custom fins now for smaller boards... Wild rides... time and challenge with a big reward.... but not a beginner board like the Aboards Glider 164.

Paul
www.PBKiteboarding.com



Lighterwind Dream ride with a Customer... Kiting into our new Flatwater spot! About 5kms away... Far upwind of everyone and with power....
See the Kites downwind at first part of vid.... then we're flying upwind.



Image

Image

Peter_Frank wrote:
tmcfarla wrote:
Obviously, this is really subjective, but I'd recommend just giving up on twin tips in light wind. I'm not a strapless-nazi, I love twin-tips, but I never had fun in light wind until I tried a surfboard. It probably isn't even a very good surfboard (directional kiteboard from about 2002 that I never used when it was new). I've tried a few different light wind-specific twin-tips, and found them boring. I don't doubt that a lot of this comes down to skill, and I won't claim that I have put the time into learning light-wind twin-tip kiting. What it boils down to (for me) is I can either have an unsatisfying session on a twin tip, or I can go out on a strapless surfboard, fall a bunch of times, be challenged the entire time, and thoroughly enjoy it. I think this would apply equally well to a skimboard or a raceboard or a hydrofoil. Basically, something that is novel. You simply aren't going to be very excited in light wind, but if you are doing something new and challenging, you'll have a great time regardless.


Very true :thumb:

And apart from above, you CAN actually get excited in light wind, on raceboards (or hydrofoils or similar) because of the sheer speed and ability to jump in ridiculous low wind 8)

:D Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Size of light wind board?
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 7:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:16 am
Posts: 367
Location: Chile/Brasil
Hello PBKiteboarding,
Its nice to hear some input on the flysurfer race twintip.
Can you comment on the optional center fins you are making and the splitboard concept that you have on the website?
Im interested on the Split board.
Pedro


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 Post subject: Re: Size of light wind board?
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 8:05 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 3:37 am
Posts: 2419
With boards, light wind included,
it comes down to the 3 S's:

Style: some will only want a twin, others only a directional
Shape: Curvy = carvy, straight = straight
...keeping in mind flex can make a straight line curved!
Size: For light wind the first thing to consider is size, normally.

Here are some data points on surface area:
SUP 10' long: 19ft^2
longboard 9' long ~13 ft^2 (1.21m^2)
a large alaia 6'9" long: ~9.2 ft^2 ( 0.86m^2)
~170x50 doors: ~7.6-7.8ft^2 ( 0.71-0.75m^2)
Typical shortboard surfboard, ~6' - 6'3" long: 7.5 to 8.0 ft^2 ( 0.71-0.75m^2)
Small alaia (eg ~6' x15") or Large 5'6" kite skimboard ~7.5ft^2 ( 0.71m^2)
small 5'6" kite surfboards or paipo style boards: 6 to 7 ft^2 ( 0.56-0.65m^2)
137x43 twin tip: ~5.7ft^2 ( 0.53m^2)
134x40 twin tip: ~5.2ft^2 ( 0.48m^2)

For typical 75kg+ riders, serious light wind power seems evident to me when the surface area of the board is about 7ft^2 or more.
Too much flex or rocker of course can negate this, and too little can often give good planing performance but poor handling.
Surface area over 9ft^2 is superfluous, as far as I can tell, unless the rider is very large.
Guessing at the effective waterplane area riding with an edge in probably doesn't generalize as well between board types, but on most boards I would say rarely does more than 75% of the board appear actually in the water, and often <50% at speed. Hence careful technique lets some make do with smaller boards in light wind.
High lift fins can change the game once on plane, but mostly it's effective surface area....

Then, once you figure out how big you need to go, what do you want to do out there?
I got a workout in 8-15kts on a 17 with this skim-thing, picture shows probably 10 or 11 knots:
Attachment:
lightwindpowercruiser .jpg
lightwindpowercruiser .jpg [ 244.07 KIB | Viewed 1385 times ]

and more like 8 here:
Attachment:
P1010791sm.jpg
P1010791sm.jpg [ 170.12 KIB | Viewed 1365 times ]

some day, it would be fun to try a directional with a retractable high lift fin, too...


Last edited by BWD on Tue May 07, 2013 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Size of light wind board?
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 9:41 pm 
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Location: PBKiteboarding.com Sales-Repair-Lessons Ozone, Aboards, Flysurfer, OR, Canada USA Worlwide
The Lightest wind boards have fins in them.
High lift fins work even when not planing. They actually help to get the board up on a plane.
Where otherwise we would not generate enough speed and line tension, apparent wind to get a chance get up and planing in very light winds. That's one of the reasons we can kite when others can't. But even then when the board is in a plane it's basically all fin in action when ridden flat..
The magic and addiction kicks in...

With water being 800 time more dense than air this Flyrace fin can add about 5-6m kite size equivalence or so compared to no fin. So we can ride ether more powered or the same power with a smaller kite.

More on the Flyrace here...
http://is.gd/wRExxN

Great site for raceboard fins:
http://ristafins.com/kite

Hydrofoils:
http://www.moseshydrofoil.com/prod_e.htm

Image

Image

Image


Last edited by PBKiteboarding on Tue May 07, 2013 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Size of light wind board?
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:09 pm 
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Nice images, and I get what you mean about the fins helping you plane out...
the FS and race door combo is looking good.
Well I remember the difference between a good fin and a weak one from windsurfing in light wind.
Adding lift without raceboard handling or "deep draft" is the next goal I think,
and that flyrace looks like it does this well!


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 Post subject: Re: Size of light wind board?
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:44 pm 
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Location: PBKiteboarding.com Sales-Repair-Lessons Ozone, Aboards, Flysurfer, OR, Canada USA Worlwide
Looks like you like those lightwind days like many of us do..... nice...
We go Super Light though another big step down. Summer is light here.. Great Lakes... even kiting in lake breezes without any real frontal system.

Yup!... when I first started windsurfing a long time ago.
I had a retractable center fin on my Windsurfer (One Design) no footstraps and used
to do lots of fancy footwork freestyle, back to back, boar upside down foot on the fin, rail riding and remember the power of the fin.. and then many other windsurfers with retractable fins and footstraps and closing the gap... and riding the Windsurfing fin....

BWD wrote:
Nice images, and I get what you mean about the fins helping you plane out...
the FS and race door combo is looking good.
Well I remember the difference between a good fin and a weak one from windsurfing in light wind.
Adding lift without raceboard handling or "deep draft" is the next goal I think,
and that flyrace looks like it does this well!



Here I'm using a Fin in a 145 to help get me back upwind in a small Bay not good to get stuck downwind in,,, also the fin allows me to be on a 10m (Smaller kite) than I would normally have to ride wit no fin... and enough power to do a bunch of kite loops... Tapping into some more water density...



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 Post subject: Re: Size of light wind board?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:50 am 
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Location: Michigan, United States
I'm 225, I was up and riding with my 13m in 12knots gusting to 16 on 161 litewave wing, it's not bad in chop with minimal spray in the face. I was struggling to maintain ground and going downwind. I'm sure a lighter rider would of done better in these conditions. My opinion is that light wind boards may help maintain ground and go upwind in light conditions but they are boring and no substitute for an larger kite.


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 Post subject: Re: Size of light wind board?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:47 am 
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The fun that can be had on a lighwind board is skill.
A 164x50 Glider is not out lightest wind board but basically a regular board for heavier guys here...
For Example Here is Mat 220 doing Kiteloops on a Flyrace and 15m in 8-10 knots.

An Aboards Glider 164x50 would be a regular board for a 220lbs guy in 12 knots.

The Flyrace has lots more Power.

Forums are interesting not always great for many riders to read and not have hope for fun because some kiters don't know how to be powered or skill and ride the right size kite and board... on any board or kite, you need power, a certain tension on the lines stay upwind and if you can stay upwind you can do tricks and jumps without walking up the beach.

If you can actually do that... The best riders can squeeze every ounce of power out of a combo board and kite. Others can't do it lack of skill or want.
Matt jumps and does tricks with his Flyrace and many others because they know i can be done (Hey they watched me) and kept the dream alive. We encourage each other and hopefully forums like his can help shed light as I write on the real Deal and possibilities with real pictures and video of success.

I hear people talk about what they can't do and the reason they think that is that they read it on a forum from someone who can't do or want... and then tell other people on the beach and other forums as it's their first hand experience.... The good old garbage in garbage out. You get to know it as soon as someone says a few words.

I would not be able to tell Matt that is Flyrace 173x48 is too big and no fun... especially since he knew it was possible watching me do tricks with it as well... and people follow the possibilities...
If the wind were 8 knots he does a similar things on his 21m.

Big boards are also easier for heavier guys to man handle....

Matt Stop doing what you are doing below... It's not Fun! :
Don't you know your 220lbs? Wait for some Whitecaps like everyone else :)

Ah but really nice to see the Smiles of Wonder!

Image

Kiteloop
Image

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Last edited by PBKiteboarding on Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Size of light wind board?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:53 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:57 pm
Posts: 65
Location: Ystad, Sweden
First of all, get a lightwind specific kite if you really wanna have fun!

I myself ride a SS Turbine and a Tablas The Fuse 143x43 ( http://www.tablas.se/boards/the-fuse-143 ). I cruise upwind in 8knots and pop mobes in 10-12 knots, I'm 85kgs.

Go flat and wide boardwise! I would never buy a board longer than 150.


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