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Kite design for auto-handling of gusts?

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ronnie
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Kite design for auto-handling of gusts?

Postby ronnie » Fri May 24, 2013 9:38 am

I couldn't find any threads on this since 2007 but maybe it has been covered?

Its nice to be on the right kite size for the wind and have a steady wind. I'm wondering where kite design is now for auto-adjusting for gusts, so the kite 'spills' power in the gusts?

The sort of design features that might handle gusts like:-

Reducing the projected area by the leading edge deforming so the tips are closer together.

Deformation of the aerofoil shape in the centre of the kite so either the aerofoil flattens or the material near the trailing edge sheets out while the front area keeps the same aerofoil.

Sheeting out - maybe by the front lines being very strong and non-stretch and the rears stretching but I cant see how that could be done without badly affecting the handling.

'Leaking' air by having a split which opens up across the width of the kite allowing air to pass through it onto the top surface, reducing the lift?

So where is design now compared to years ago in terms of 'spilling' the extra power in gusts?

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Re: Kite design for auto-handling of gusts?

Postby tautologies » Fri May 24, 2013 9:43 am

The ride actually does this in nuclear gusts. In the beginning it looked weird but it never folds up and leaves as a very stable gust eater.

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Re: Kite design for auto-handling of gusts?

Postby ronnie » Fri May 24, 2013 9:58 am

tautologies wrote:The ride actually does this in nuclear gusts. In the beginning it looked weird but it never folds up and leaves as a very stable gust eater.


Are you referring to the 'leaking' part Taut?

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Re: Kite design for auto-handling of gusts?

Postby snobdr » Fri May 24, 2013 1:38 pm

Peter lynn twinskins handle gusts rather well. One of the few things they actually do well.

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Re: Kite design for auto-handling of gusts?

Postby plummet » Sat May 25, 2013 1:44 am

yeah I remember my old 10m venom jelly fishing through the gusts. it was quite a smooth ride in ridiculous weather.

these days I want to harness the power of that gust if need be. So an auto gust muncher is not what I desire anymore.

I want a kite I can spill wind by letting the bar out or harness it by pulling it in. then I can control my own fate. My little 6 reo does this pretty good in nuking winds.

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Re: Kite design for auto-handling of gusts?

Postby tautologies » Sat May 25, 2013 2:44 am

ronnie wrote:
tautologies wrote:The ride actually does this in nuclear gusts. In the beginning it looked weird but it never folds up and leaves as a very stable gust eater.


Are you referring to the 'leaking' part Taut?


Sorry for the short message...I was on wine and a shitty pad.

The Ride LE wingtips moves closer when a gust hits, so it kind of reshapes the kite. One of the spots I ride is notoriously gusty, and so we think it is a great test for kites :-)

The wind can go from 0 to 30 with direction changes even mid-air jumping. It can be challenging. So in the beginning I had the ride out I would pay closely attention to the kite as the gusts hits and as I loop the kite...when a nuclear gust hits the shape of the kite actually becomes a bit more C shaped.

Long time ago kites that displayed this behavior would sometimes fold which makes the jelly fishing (kind of like what an underinflated-kite does)..the Ride never did that and I think the way the shape changes is a huge advantage. It does not really change much when the wind just increases...

I do not know exactly how things work, and it took me quite some time to come to this conclusion...but I attribute its stability in gusty conditions to this feature.

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Re: Kite design for auto-handling of gusts?

Postby ronnie » Sat May 25, 2013 8:35 am

plummet wrote:yeah I remember my old 10m venom jelly fishing through the gusts. it was quite a smooth ride in ridiculous weather.

these days I want to harness the power of that gust if need be. So an auto gust muncher is not what I desire anymore.

I want a kite I can spill wind by letting the bar out or harness it by pulling it in. then I can control my own fate. My little 6 reo does this pretty good in nuking winds.


That's why I emphasised the auto-adjust.

I think the kite design might be very different for auto-adjust compared to a kite where the rider has to react to the gust.

In the late nineties they developed a way for windsurf sails to auto-adjust to gusts and today all windsurf sails are like that. To keep the performance though, requires a high carbon mast which reacts very fast to avoid any delay in reaction or recovery of the sail.

Its more for someone who wants the wind to feel fairly constant when its gusting sharply between say 25 to 35 knots or 30 to 40 knots.

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Re: Kite design for auto-handling of gusts?

Postby ronnie » Sat May 25, 2013 8:54 am

tautologies wrote:
ronnie wrote:
tautologies wrote:The ride actually does this in nuclear gusts. In the beginning it looked weird but it never folds up and leaves as a very stable gust eater.


Are you referring to the 'leaking' part Taut?


Sorry for the short message...I was on wine and a shitty pad.

The Ride LE wingtips moves closer when a gust hits, so it kind of reshapes the kite. One of the spots I ride is notoriously gusty, and so we think it is a great test for kites :-)

The wind can go from 0 to 30 with direction changes even mid-air jumping. It can be challenging. So in the beginning I had the ride out I would pay closely attention to the kite as the gusts hits and as I loop the kite...when a nuclear gust hits the shape of the kite actually becomes a bit more C shaped.

Long time ago kites that displayed this behavior would sometimes fold which makes the jelly fishing (kind of like what an underinflated-kite does)..the Ride never did that and I think the way the shape changes is a huge advantage. It does not really change much when the wind just increases...

I do not know exactly how things work, and it took me quite some time to come to this conclusion...but I attribute its stability in gusty conditions to this feature.


Sorry - I was thinking of the Ocean Rodeo Rise.

I just checked a review on the Ride by Kyle who wrote:-
"The kite is dependable and predictable, but not one of my favorites. I've tested it yesterday and was disappointed. It turns lazy, there's no boost or pop. Not what exactly what you need for unhooked, loops and technical moves. It's more of a beginner kite... good for kiters that want a simple and clean session."

The point I would take from that is that if you load up to pop, its going to feel like a gust to the kite so you don't get the power and boost you want, so it may well be that a side-effect of auto gust handling is that you loose boosting power.

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Re: Kite design for auto-handling of gusts?

Postby tautologies » Sat May 25, 2013 10:54 am

ronnie wrote:Sorry - I was thinking of the Ocean Rodeo Rise.

I just checked a review on the Ride by Kyle who wrote:-
"The kite is dependable and predictable, but not one of my favorites. I've tested it yesterday and was disappointed. It turns lazy, there's no boost or pop. Not what exactly what you need for unhooked, loops and technical moves. It's more of a beginner kite... good for kiters that want a simple and clean session."

The point I would take from that is that if you load up to pop, its going to feel like a gust to the kite so you don't get the power and boost you want, so it may well be that a side-effect of auto gust handling is that you loose boosting power.


I'm not sure who kyle is but..
It would not be the kite I chose for unhooked riding...but the kite jumps fine. It does jump a bit different than say the torch so maybe kyle expected the same response? For me the kite is definitely predictable but I don't think it drops power like that...I understand what you are saying tho because I was speculating thesame but I do not think it is the case...that said it definitely does not have the same initial pull that the torch has...top height tho I think is similar..I'm going to assume it is that initial pull kyle feel is lazy. My ride is primarily used in waves and it is more sheet and type kite. I will not say it is a beginner kite tho..because a lot of the local riders here prefer it for waves :)

I should have the one here pretty soon so ill be able to see how it compares to old one... :)

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Re: Kite design for auto-handling of gusts?

Postby ronnie » Sat May 25, 2013 12:55 pm

tautologies wrote:
ronnie wrote:Sorry - I was thinking of the Ocean Rodeo Rise.

I just checked a review on the Ride by Kyle who wrote:-
"The kite is dependable and predictable, but not one of my favorites. I've tested it yesterday and was disappointed. It turns lazy, there's no boost or pop. Not what exactly what you need for unhooked, loops and technical moves. It's more of a beginner kite... good for kiters that want a simple and clean session."

The point I would take from that is that if you load up to pop, its going to feel like a gust to the kite so you don't get the power and boost you want, so it may well be that a side-effect of auto gust handling is that you loose boosting power.


I'm not sure who kyle is but..
It would not be the kite I chose for unhooked riding...but the kite jumps fine. It does jump a bit different than say the torch so maybe kyle expected the same response? For me the kite is definitely predictable but I don't think it drops power like that...I understand what you are saying tho because I was speculating thesame but I do not think it is the case...that said it definitely does not have the same initial pull that the torch has...top height tho I think is similar..I'm going to assume it is that initial pull kyle feel is lazy. My ride is primarily used in waves and it is more sheet and type kite. I will not say it is a beginner kite tho..because a lot of the local riders here prefer it for waves :)

I should have the one here pretty soon so ill be able to see how it compares to old one... :)


I think that Kyle review was on Epikoo.

It makes sense to me that loading up for pop would be affected, but in strong winds with a kicker to launch off with speed, the jump shouldn't be affected much other than you might not get as much extra height or float from a gust.


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