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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite trend
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:13 am 
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windtzu wrote:
Back lines at least 15 cm shorter than the front? The day before I checked to see if my lines were in tune and all was well > they were all even. Unless it has something to do with the Airush Smart Bar I was using, or perhaps I was missing something else.

I hope no one took my report the wrong way. I know waves can wreak havoc on any kite. And all designs have their pro's and con's. I'd be interested in trying the Cloud again, with the understanding that perhaps waves is the last place (at least in marginal conditions) that I'd want to take it. The upside is still intriguing.


I think everyone can have an opinon :-) I got mine specifically for waves, and have had no problems so far...I have not dropped in the zone either tho..but I very rarely do.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite trend
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:26 am 
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Maybe 15, maybe 20, maybe 0.
I guess the bottom line is I wasn't there so I don't know what you did or how the kite reacted.
I can say I have only ever backstalled my cloud by grabbing a good amount of outside leader on both sides and yanking until the kite crumpled and fell down.
The only other time I made it lose lift was by edging against it with an alaia pointing dead upwind in under 10 knots, it started to fall sideways towards the water, but I released the board edge and it recovered easily. Both times were deliberate experiments to see how the kite handled being forced way outside its aerodynamic window.
The other possibility to me would be if it was flying in less than "marginal" wind.
Not 5 knots or 7 knots, but 0 or 2 or 3 knots.
My experience with the cloud is that it flies, and is more stable, in less wind than any other lei i have seen.
Were any other kites flying ok when the cloud fell, I wonder?
I would have less worry taking a cloud in marginal conditions, than any kite that is less stable or heavier.
Last weekend I rode my cloud 17 with friends who had a turbine and a zephyr.
The cloud was more stable at the lowest wind (7-8 knots) than either of the others.
As to waves, the cloud could be called a specialist wave kite!
The stability and drift is better than most, to say the least.
So I'd say, au contraire, the clouds are pretty ideal for waves, and light wind.
If you had a condition where a properly trimmed cloud fell out of the sky, I would surprised if any other kite would have done much better.
It might be worth giving it another try.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite trend
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:02 am 
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"So I'd say, au contraire, the clouds are pretty ideal for waves, and light wind."

No doubt it is, until you drop it in what was only very small, knee high waves. I've done the same on occasion with my three strut kite and it never turned inside out. This being said, I need to be careful to not drop any kite in waves = very bad ;)

It wasn't "less than marginal winds" to keep a kite in flight. My friend was keeping his fully strutted 17 meter North Dyno in the air, albeit with minimal success in terms of getting going on his board...So perhaps it was marginally, marginal. lol.

I'm betting it was one or a combination of two things: perhaps there was something a bit off with the lines - I understand the Cloud is sensitive to this, or maybe the bladder was twisted some when I received the kite - I understand this can cause erratic flying behavior. The kite felt a bit off from the start.

As I said, I'm open for another try :) It's seems like an interesting concept.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite trend
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:12 pm 
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Location: San Diego
BWD wrote:
I would have less worry taking a cloud in marginal conditions, than any kite that is less stable or heavier.
Last weekend I rode my cloud 17 with friends who had a turbine and a zephyr.
The cloud was more stable at the lowest wind (7-8 knots) than either of the others.
As to waves, the cloud could be called a specialist wave kite!
The stability and drift is better than most, to say the least.
So I'd say, au contraire, the clouds are pretty ideal for waves, and light wind.
If you had a condition where a properly trimmed cloud fell out of the sky, I would surprised if any other kite would have done much better.
It might be worth giving it another try.


I also have the 17 M and I have to totally agree with BWD. I have had in 6 mph winds not enough to get out but it never fell and it was very stable. In flat water I was able to take it out in winds at 10mph and I have been on the waves with it in 12 mph, love the drift and the turning speed for a big kite.

Just yesterday I rode the 13 M for the second time in waves and it was great, no problems in winds averaging from 12 mph - 16 mph with lulls of 10 and gust to 18. The turning felt like my 12M Blade, which already turns fast or maybe even like my 10M Blade which I have not rode for a while but it pulled like my 14M Blade.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite trend
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:30 am 
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Location: South Florida
I have a 13m Cloud. The only way to make it back stall is to really try by oversheeting, like grabbing an armful of lines above the bar. The stability of this kite is incredible. Everyone that tries it is amazed. It's style of flying is not for everyone, but in really light wind it's the best. If it can't fly, no other kite can fly, except for my friend's 17m Cloud.
I had a 16m Dyno. There's no way the Dyno can fly if the Cloud can't. Plus the Cloud turns twice as fast as the Dyno.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite trend
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:47 am 
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They're not better in light winds and relaunch than foil kites with a limited range and performance,
except steering speed :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite trend
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:50 am 
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Aummm wrote:
except steering speed :roll:


:thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite trend
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:53 pm 
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Aummm wrote:
They're not better in light winds and relaunch than foil kites with a limited range and performance,
except steering speed :roll:


You're joking. Absolutely better relaunch in light winds than foils. I can always relaunch while my friend swims in his Speed 19m.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite trend
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:05 pm 
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Location: Playa del carmen, Mexico
I have tried and flown only one Strutless kite so far, a prototype from EPIC Kites in 9m.
This kite has battons as you can see on the pictures.

Attachment:
strutless epic.jpg
strutless epic.jpg [ 190.95 KIB | Viewed 312 times ]


I flew the kite on the flat, haven t tried it yet in the waves.
The power delivered was great, I didn t have any problem kitelooping the kite and had a great pop.
I did crash the kite once and it did relaunch pretty easily, and then would stay parked on the water on the side of the window with no problem!

Attachment:
Strutless.jpg
Strutless.jpg [ 173.83 KIB | Viewed 312 times ]


Now I hear people saying that a strutless kite would be great for waves.....well for me, a wave kite has to be able to relaunch fast when crashed in the waves, I haven t tried it yet and to tell you the truth I am a bit scrared to try it with a strutless as I feel that the waves would make a mess out it before I can relaunch it!!

The advantage I can see from the Strutless kite is the weight, and would be for me perfect for Snowkiting as the wind is usually lighter, easier to carry and pack as we usually have to walk a bit to get to the good spots.

Attachment:
photo (6).JPG
photo (6).JPG [ 1.73 MIB | Viewed 312 times ]


No snow for me right now but will be flying it for sure this next winter in Utah and will keep posting about the performance on the snow.

:mosh:


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite trend
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:46 pm 
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Location: shallow sea
great, another one endless epic thread.

now i'm certain, definitely not going to buy strutless...


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