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 Post subject: Re: Why do other brands then slingshot still use inferior li
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:45 am 
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Ayahuasca wrote:
800# per line is over kill. Even after you calculate force into the equation it's more than any kiter will ever need.


The reason they use the 800 lbs fronts isn't for the 800 lbs breaking strength, it's for the lower stretch ability.


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 Post subject: Re: Why do other brands then slingshot still use inferior li
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:24 am 
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Slappysan wrote:
Ayahuasca wrote:
800# per line is over kill. Even after you calculate force into the equation it's more than any kiter will ever need.


The reason they use the 800 lbs fronts isn't for the 800 lbs breaking strength, it's for the lower stretch ability.
And I really like that, but the backs are normal lines, so the stretch is not as easy to keep even.
I think for what a set of lines cost, they could supply 800 lbs all around.
I am just glad that some companies have gone back to good linesets.
The shite white with the flecks of color that was on some of the 2010, 2011, 2012 bars were just awful.
I had two North bars with those lines and they frayed super easily and just wore very quickly.
I like the lines that Ocean Rodeo has supplied, I like the Ozone lines.


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 Post subject: Re: Why do other brands then slingshot still use inferior li
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:39 am 
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The stretch has little to do with the thickness of the lines and has much more to do with the processing of the Dyneema/Spectra. 400 kg breaking strength is a safety factor of roughly 10 on the front lines for a normal guy on a twintip.


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 Post subject: Re: Why do other brands then slingshot still use inferior li
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:55 am 
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laz wrote:
Lines to me are #1 for safety and reliability.

Why are other companies lines still not up too par with slingshot? At first glance you see the differance in center lines thickness and also lack of easily tangleing and kinking. I know I will always ride slingshot just because they do not go cheap on the little things !!!


I will never buy a slingshot kite ever again.

a while back i had a kite that all the stitches opened in the struts at exactly the same place. I wrote slingshot about the design flaw and the next year they had the same stitch again, so obviously the same problem reaccured.


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 Post subject: Re: Why do other brands then slingshot still use inferior li
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:35 am 
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I switched from best to blade this spring and have had 3 failures already! 2 front line failures, one one a 2012 bar, the other on a new unibar and the front leader line on the 2012 bar. These new lines may be 800lbs, but they fray and snap too easy. I have been kiting for 7 years and this year has been the only one with any scary equipment malfunctions.. All I can say is that my replacement lines are not the loosely braided style that some companies are now using.


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 Post subject: Re: Why do other brands then slingshot still use inferior li
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:31 pm 
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do i read that someone calculate a x10 factor on a 800 pound line ?

BS

800 pound is not 400 kg.

weigt is not equal all the time on both lines.

yet IF your tiny, and you weight only 160 pound, wet with your gear and board. what is the load when you pull a hard jump and the lines pull your weight out of the water in a fraction of sec ? simple common sense is : WAY more then your weight. dont have the education to do the math ( could someone do so ? ).

i'm 200 pounds, plus wet plus harnes, plus board, glad they are 800 pounds.


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 Post subject: Re: Why do other brands then slingshot still use inferior li
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:36 pm 
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As Mutiny kites demonstrated the loads for an average guy 75 kg the load is less than what you think. He is probably around 80ish kgs with harness and wetsuit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... -fyN7wjN4#
It looks like loaded the center lines goes up to 64 kg and the steering lines are about 10.5 kg load each.

If the load on the center is 64 then for each of the front lines it must be 32 kg. 800 pounds is 362 kg. That is a safety factor of 11.3 in terms of break load.

Since the loads are quite low compared to the break load, it is more likely that the manufacturing quality of the lines is dominating rather than the diameter when it comes to stretch.

High quality high load lines for boats are prestretched and sometimes the filaments have undergone special treatments to minimize the creep/stretch over time. This is of course according to the manufacturers, I have no idea whether it is true.


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 Post subject: Re: Why do other brands then slingshot still use inferior li
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:01 pm 
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Bit of a pimp question when you phrase it like that!

Funny how no kite manufacturer chooses to put real top quality lines on their bars stock.

Q power line is far and away the strongest, most abrasion resistant and long lasting line out there. Takes all but a moment to get used to how they pack and unpack, they are high contrast color for winter riders and the only thing that has a chance against ski or snowboard edges, That outer braid makes em last a lifetime of summer use.

They are also round cross section and oscillate at a higher frequency than the standard square braids. Apparently that makes the Q power lower drag. They certainly make a kite feel pretty responsive compared to crap lines, but I think that is more about their super low stretch than drag. Still, any help getting a better upwind angle is appreciated. You can safely tie the stuff off with a knot so line replacement is pretty simple compared to standard lines and even at the beach bulk line can be a finished line set in about 15-20 min with little more than a knife, lighter and screw driver.

Until any brand chooses to really step up and put nicely finished Q power on their bars this conversation is nit picking!


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 Post subject: Re: Why do other brands then slingshot still use inferior li
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:18 pm 
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It is a sweeping statement. BWS bar comes with fantastic lines 800kg, stiff, virtually no stretch after a years use. the lines are stiff and the black and grey lines still look like new.

best bar and lines I have had in 14yrs kiting and must have had/made 20-30 bars and lines in that time.

mike


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 Post subject: Re: Why do other brands then slingshot still use inferior li
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:37 pm 
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Starsky wrote:
...Funny how no kite manufacturer chooses to put real top quality lines on their bars stock...

may be manufacturers are just making different kite materials corresponding lifespan wise?
you know, the weakest link, kite wing cloth teijin the "rip(non)stop". how long it possibly could last?

if lines last four or five hard wearing seasons nobody would buy new bars (each 450$) any more!


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