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 Post subject: Re: EpicKites 4G
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:43 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:44 pm
Posts: 20
Kites-
My first epic kite was a 2010 screamer 7m. I bought it used of Dimitri and it was did have some good power. I used it in high winds and the kite boosts high. But it is also extremely twitchy and sits very forward in the window. I also owned a 9m and 14m 2011 screamer. The 9m was my favorite. It was fast and had a lot of power. I could hold down a ton of power with it, but it was also twitchy. Its not a good kite to unhook on. If you are into just boosting high and jumping it is defiantly a good kite. It rips you right out of the water. I feel like the kite likes to be flown hooked in. They all had light bar pressure. I liked the 14m because it turned really fast for that size and it did jump well. But again, unhooked was not the best. Overall I enjoyed the kites for boosting big and cruising around fast. The inflation system was old style and took a while to pump up.

The canopy material of the 7m wore very quickly and the quality was poor. I was so disappointed. I barely used it and it degraded quicker than any kite I have owned. I have also had issues with the 9m. One time I was out riding, jumped, the kite inverted, rolled on it self and a line sliced the canopy material in half. It was a hefty repair. Another time when I was self-launching the 14m and the main safety randomly released and sent the kite flying down the beach. It got a bunch of pinholes and the canopy material ripped easily. I’ve gone through two bladders and it has been the biggest pain in the ass to repair. I don’t think its fair to make claims that epic kites are bomb proof and the best quality out there because they are not. They are decent. I would say they are average quality. But in my 8 years of kiting I have flown liquid force, best and epic kites and I have had more problems with my epic kites than any other brand. It seems there’s always a hole, something’s leaking or breaking. The quality is just average and there were for sure some issues with the older models.

Boards-
I have a droid and have tried the oxygen. The liked the oxygen and it got me going in light wind and was nice because it felt like a smaller board. It was also pretty light. The droid was just average. It is pretty flexy and ate chop well. It got the job done but I wasn’t raving about it or didn’t love it. The neoprene like material under the foot straps tore when I opened them up to adjust them and they just seem like poor quality. The bottom foot pads are comfortable but I hate the straps. They scraped up my toes really bad after long days of riding.

Bar-
I have had both the 2010 black bar and the newer 3g white bar. The bar is average at best. The black bar is thinner and the grip damaged very easily. The 3g bar was a little thicker and had a nice feel, but it also got chewed up easily. The old blade safety release is hairy and low quality. It released on me a few times by accident while I was launching my kite and it put me in a few scary situations. Once time I was self-launching and it released, and severely damaged my kite. The sharp edge on it also tore up the bar when winding up the line. I was always worried what would happened it accidently released in the middle of a big jump. I never had any issues with the depower strap slipping like some other have wrote. But for the average build of the bar I don’t think it worth the high price that they charge for it. The bar does its job, but it is just an average bar. Nothing fancy. I wouldn’t say it’s the “best” design ever or “best” quality ever, because its not. It’s just average. Basically they just chose a bunch of parts from other brands and formed it into their own bar.

The new release system on the 4g looks nice, however it just seems to be just a copy from other brands that have had the similar system out for a while. And the new 4g bar seems to be the same 3g bar just with the new safety release. In my eyes the bar is just average and gets the job done. There is so much hype about “the best bar ever blah blah” I just find it kind of annoying at this point. I personally think that it looks a little cheap compared to brands like Best, North and Cabrinha who put more money into the design/production process.



Conclusion-
I have owned some screamers and a couple epic boards and bought them with my own money. I’m not sponsored by any brand and am just an average rider. Sometimes I like boosting big and sometimes I like to ride boots. I love Dimitri’s passion and enthusiasm for the sport. I also love all the videos because he actually shows the kites flying and people riding. Rather than a 5 min intro of some team rider waking up and eating breakfast and walking to the beach. He has always been good with responding to emails and helping out. But I have become increasingly irritated by the hype and crazy claims. I feel that Epic gear is just average. I personally think that some of it just looks a little cheap and some of it is just cheap. And I also feel that the owner of the company posting personal emails from customers over and over is a little corny. We get you love the sport and love your company but all the hype and exaggerations and “best ever” claims are just over the top annoying at this point. The "best bar ever" and “the best quick release ever” and the "best quality kites ever" its just not true. If epic is a “one man” show there is no way that one man can do as much testing/designing/innovation as the larger brands with a slew of team riders and design team. It just doesn’t add up - and it shows in the products. It seems more like Epic just watches what other brand do first, then takes what he thinks is best and works those ideas into his products.


Epic has the renegade and screamer since they started out. I mean how much have these kites really changed over the years? Sure there have been some tweaks and some minor changes, but I feel like mostly its just a change of new graphics and maybe a different pulley set up. And every year they have magically created the “best kite ever”??? For what you get, the prices of all the gear should be lower. It’s not a premium brand like its hyped up to be.


I have been trying to sell my old epic kites but the resale is just horrible. I feel like I spent so much money on it and now I can’t even sell them. Literally no one wants them. I have easily sold my old best and liquid force gear, but getting rid of my epic gear has been extremely challenging and I feel like at this point I just wasted a bunch of money. There is no second hand value.


Since, I have purchased a Carbinha Switchblade and some Cabrinha boards. I couldn’t be happier. I feel like the build quality is better and it just feels more solid. It feels so much more reliable in the air and doesn’t sit so far up in the window. Good bar pressure and quick responsive turning. Good boost and feel. I also think that the bar is the best one I have ever owned. I love the grip, the soft bar ends and the trimming system. It feels so much more comfortable and I have confidence that it won’t randomly release. It’s super clean and works well. I will now be moving forward with Cabrinha gear .

Also sadly I just don’t want to be associated with a company like this that hypes so much on the forum and gets into all silly arguments with people of the forum. It’s a little immature. There’s no need for the owner of a supposedly “top quality” company to post personal emails or make all these crazy claims – just let the products speak for themselves. I gave Epic a shot and did like the kites for boosting. But that is about it. I have had too many headaches with repairs and things breaking, that I am just done. The quality and reliability for me was just not there.I just feel like there too much hype and exaggerations.


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 Post subject: Re: EpicKites 4G
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:53 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:40 am
Posts: 39
hi Dimitri. I have a few of your products and I am happy customer. Also I fly other kite brands and I am happy with them to. Liquid Force, Naish, Ozone and your old kites Eclipse . Keep up with your video. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: EpicKites 4G
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:54 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 4082
Location: OUTER BANKS (NC) USA. Owner of EPICKITES
Hello Mr. jakster4 and thank you for your post. We had a great feed back with the 2010 models with the exception of some kites that had bladder issues due to the factory mistakes. But we took care of our customers like we always do.
I started the EPIC band in 2010, so that year was our fist year introducing the EPIC product into the market. Then because of you guys, we learned a lot and came up with the 2011 product, and we continue to improve and came up with the 3G product last year.
Now we just release the 4G products and because of the help from customers, dealers and team riders we were able to improve even better on the new product. So in few words as you can see we get better every generation.
Also you have to understand that you have a lot of good kite companies out there and it all depends what you like. For example some people like Toyota cars, other people like Ford, BMW, Fiat, Volvo, Renault.....you name it. And of course other people love Ferrari cars with the customer service of Apple.

Now concerning the 4G BAR. Yes you are right the bar itself and floaters are the same then last year but I did change the hole where the lines go through, I also changed the EVA material of the bar, so it won't wear out fast and made it a little thicker and increase the space and hight of where your fingers grab the bar. And of course changed the graphic on the bar. Then as you can see from the videos and pictures we came up with our own Chicken Loop and redesigned the entire set up with new lines and new ideas.
Again if you get a chance take a look at the new 4G Bar, Boards and Kites and you will see a big improvement from the years before.

P.S. Bellow you will find few pictures of some of our 4G product we have, just to give you an idea. :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: EpicKites 4G
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:11 am
Posts: 50
Location: Australia
jakster4 wrote:
Kites-
Epic has the renegade and screamer since they started out. I mean how much have these kites really changed over the years? Sure there have been some tweaks and some minor changes, but I feel like mostly its just a change of new graphics and maybe a different pulley set up. And every year they have magically created the “best kite ever”??? For what you get, the prices of all the gear should be lower. It’s not a premium brand like its hyped up to be.

.


Jakster4 all fair comments and feedback except this one, all companies come up with a product and improve on it every year. Tweaks and minor changes can change the kite behaviour a lot.
Changes from the 3G renegade to 4G from what I have seen:
strut placings
bridle
bridle attachment points
slider to pulley
wing shape

All these create a kite that reacts differently, as you can see from a bridle change of 1". The idea is to create a good product and improve on it each year, as all kite companies are doing as they all believe they have the 'best kite ever'. And the prices are lower.

The foam and the depower ropes on the old bars do wear quicker than others, but Dimitri has addressed this and redesigned them, our new bars arrive today. :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: EpicKites 4G
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:59 am 
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Posts: 42
I am curious... What changes have specifically been made to the 4G Screamer from the 3G?


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 Post subject: Re: EpicKites 4G
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:30 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:28 pm
Posts: 182
Jackstar - 7 out of 10 people are gullable, look up Marketing for Dummies 101.
Learn from your lessons and move forward at that exact moment - dont hang, on something you dont like - it will just make you bitter.
If you want the truth - then 'I am God' Let ye kite company who is Perfect - cast the first stone ;)


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 Post subject: Re: EpicKites 4G
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:51 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 4082
Location: OUTER BANKS (NC) USA. Owner of EPICKITES
Quote:
Poster: superpak101
I am curious... What changes have specifically been made to the 4G Screamer from the 3G?

Hello Mr.superpak101,
It was very hard making the SCREAMER 4G models perform better then the SCREAMERS 3G. Instead of going forward we were going backwards. So in few words we did not change much on the SCREAMER 7 and the 14 only the looks plus few minor things for quality and looks purposes. But we were able to tweak a little the SCREAMER 9 and 12 in order to make it perform a little better then the 3G, but nothing major for you to see a big difference. We also change few other things on the kite to make them look even better. On the other hand the SCREAMER 10 LTD V4 is a totally different kite then the SCREAMER 10 LTD V3.
We did change the RENEGADE 4G models and made them performing better then the 3G and removed the 5 and 7 meter and came up with a 6.5m instead. But again don't take me wrong the 3G are amazing kites and we are almost sold out of 3G RENEGADES.

P.S. If you are looking for a SCREAMER 14 or SCREAMER 7 don't waist your money and get a 4G since the S14 & S7 (3G) will perform basically the same then the 4G and you will save some money. But if you like the graphics and few of the new goodies we have incorporated on the 4G kites then go with the S14 & S7 (4G). Now what other kite company will say that?


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 Post subject: Re: EpicKites 4G
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:24 am 
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Dimitri said - "But again don't take me wrong the 3G are amazing kites and we are almost sold out of 3G RENEGADES. P.S. If you are looking for a SCREAMER 14 or SCREAMER 7 don't waist your money and get a 4G since the S14 & S7 (3G) will perform basically the same then the 4G and you will save some money." End quote.

Well there you go - hows that for being straight up, ive never heard of that, in the sales department before...


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 Post subject: Re: EpicKites 4G
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:54 am 
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Honesty indeed but he's only saying what most people already know!

Going back to the canopy material, I am aware of the "other brand" that Dimitri refers to and the issue they had with a certain material. I believe that they will be bringing that material back soon by the way. Double rip stop is the way forward, it's been on North kites for 3 years now with no issues that I'm aware of so how long before we can look forward to it on an Epic kite?

As I said previously if a kite is going to be top quality then you have to use the best material.........


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 Post subject: Re: EpicKites 4G
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:11 am 
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Kiterjames said........."There is very little reinforcing around the trailing edge where the kite will wear the most, the bridal on the 7 month old kite I flew looked like it needed replacing" end Quote.

Dude im gonna have to call bullshit to that statement !! I have been flying Screamers and Renegades since 2011 - my 9m Screamer gets used at least 4 x pw summer & 2-3 pw winter...
Its allways a mix of waves and flatwater on alternate outings, has been through the ringer and crashed more times than i can remember trying tricks pushing hard - as im no soft cock kiter !
The trailing edge is something ive never even thought about until you made your very long winded statement. Ive read about otherbrands flapping themselves to death, i'll take a photo of my 2011 kites and post it Especially for you - because a photo is worth a thousand Bullshit words huh !
7 months and the bridals worn... fark i'll take one of that too !!
Any dumbass kiter knows that the short pully line if used with a ring or solid pulley is going to wear and is a 'safety preference' for many - around 8 bucks to replace both with 3mm dyneema at your marine hardware shop... no big deal there on normal wear n tear maintenance..
Like ive posted for the Jackster - if you dont like something - just walk away and say Ahhh fuck it, if you want the 'Truth' from the world... then ' I am god' ;) lol


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