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 Post subject: Re: Who is responsible for kite when landing?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:13 pm 
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Location: Upper Padre . . . . --> Oleander
Quote:
Thank you all for your answers, but I would like to ask whose fault is in this situation:

For example if I land the kite on the beach and somebody(another kite surfer without kite) took the kite, and put it on the ground in landing position. I unhook and at the same moment kite starts rising and injure someone.

These situations are pretty similar and if we would go to judge I don't think that he would say your gear - your fault.


Always the kiters fault. Not the owners, but the person flying the kite.

First the kiter has to choose the lander, and also should be prepared to self land if a contingency occurs.

If somebody catches the kite: The kiter should wait until they know the kite is secure to stop flying it, then to unhook and run to the kite. Not stop, wrap the lines, have a smoke and take a leak before going to the kite. Even if the lander slips and accidentally lets the kite loose while holding it its still the kiters fault so take responsibility and go to the kite quickly and secure your kite.

When I catch a kite, I hold it upside down and give it to the owner to secure it on the beach so if it blows away there is no question.

If a friend is catching your kite while you are both flying kites and one crashes, that is just bad luck.

Finally, If you are talking about going to court for kitesurfing: that really takes the fun out of it and you certainly aren't friends.

Jake


Last edited by jakemoore on Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Who is responsible for kite when landing?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:17 pm 
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JGTR wrote:
Quote:
I had one friend who was winding his lines when the kite took off and he got dragged by his fingers which cut them up pretty bad.


Wow he started to wind his lines in without even checking his kite was secure, that was definitely NOT the lander's fault :nono:

If someone lands your kite, you still need to check its safe, at the end of the day it's YOUR kite and YOUR responsibility


+1

Who starts winding the lines without securing the kite?

Also, to the OP. I'm really confused. You were dragged around by the chicken loop? How did you manage that? When you release the bar and hold only the chicken loop, doesn't your kite depower? And you had already unhooked the leash? Something doesn't add up. And in any case, IT IS STILL TOTALLY YOUR FAULT.


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 Post subject: Re: Who is responsible for kite when landing?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:39 pm 
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The other point Maito...

When that gust came through and relaunched your kite, was your buddy supposed to be focused on helping you secure your kite and wind your lines, or on dealing with a gust that is playing games with the kite still in the air that he is still attached to?

To even suggest that he is responsible for buying you new lines makes you pretty self-centered. Like you are most important and everyone should forget about themselves and cater to you? If I was your friend in this situation, you would've quickly become "some guy I used to kite with".


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 Post subject: Re: Who is responsible for kite when landing?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:54 am 
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Quote:
Usually i land a kite and stand there till the owner comes to deal with
his own equipment ; i will NOT be responsible for their stuff .

Quote:
Yes, you are responsible for your own kite, but when you agree to launch or land someone, it is a commitment, or a 'personal contract' to complete the job.

Both are right.
I went out at a new spot Saturday, helped launch a guy who accidentally rigged a front line wrapped around his 5th line, caught it and fixed it for him (I don't miss my old 5th lines now!). Later, I ended up crashing my kite onto the beach in a shorebreak kook dismount scenario, and he ran over and jumped on it. I had already hauled in 5m of front line flipping it almost into parked position by the time he got to it, but was glad to have the help as I dropped the bar and ran over to my kite.
The kiter should take responsibility for his gear and the harm it might do 100%.
But as pointed out above, if you help someone with their kite, you might be taking their life in their hands.
If you can't do that, don't.
By the same token, when I ask for help I ask for the minimum amount of help needed.
If someone will catch my kite and hold it in taco position for 10-20 seconds while I run to take it from them, that is enough. I wouldn't ask them to flip it, tie it down or put sand on it.
If they want to flip it, that's fine, unless it's the cloud.
If someone caught my cloud, flipped it and walked away (or possibly one of my old C kites for that matter) it could be worse than refusing to help.
The helper should do the minimum, hold the kite and release it, or catch the kite and hold it.
Doing anything more requires too much knowledge of the kite, the kiter, conditions, and the "kindness of fate."

The "kindness of fate" part can be a deal breaker.


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 Post subject: Re: Who is responsible for kite when landing?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:15 am 
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Location: Kitebeach, Cape Town
Similar thing happened to me 5 years ago. Wind was 25-30kn gusty. I caught my fiends kite while mine was still in the air and I thought I could do him a favour and flip it. He'd already disconnected from the bar walking towards me. Half way through my flipping his kite his wingtip catches my bar and a gust hits. His kite takes off lines wrapped around mine and suddenly I'm left with two kites attached to each other death looping down down the beach. I was dragged about 100m and ate a lot of sand. I could not see anything because of sand in my eyes. At the same time my friend realizes what is going on and runs after me to try and help. Somehow he gets a slack line of his kite wrapped around his foot and now he is being dragged downwind by one foot. The line around his foot eventually snaps after degloving his foot. Myself and my gear were not damaged by the incident but he was left with hospital and new line bills. He did not ask me to pay for anything and assumed the responsibility. We are still friends and still occasionally kite together.

From now on when ever I catch someones kite I keep holding it in the upside down position and let them flip and secure their own kite. 90% of my sessions I self launch and self land. If the wind is below 25kn its easy enough to land by walking up the front lines. If the wind is >25kn I store a carabiner clipped to the back of my harness and use it to do an anchored landing with the carabiner around the chicken loop and a fixed object.

Good luck with your friendship.


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 Post subject: Re: Who is responsible for kite when landing?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:59 pm 
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Didn't read all posts probalbly already mentioned- When I have someone hold kite for launching I flip kite over and hand it to them.I look at lines at kite make sure the bridal looks good.I run to bar, hookup and get myself in position, give the thumbs up ,keep my kite at 45 deg and get in water quickly, no 12 oclock high beach shenanigans.(30secs) When landing I come in, get the attention of a lander, land kite, if it's someone I know and trust I quickly unhook and run to kite flip it over out of the way and put some sand on it. Wind lines up and place out of way on kite. If I don,t know or fully trust the lander I do same but I run to kite with bar still attached. Never thought it was rocket science, funny watching people yelling and screaming at the person holding the kite that their in the wrong spot! Or those that can't even take one hand off bar to give a easily seen thumbs up. Stand there yelling launch ,don't launch and making all sorts of faces.
It's riders responsibility.


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 Post subject: Re: Who is responsible for kite when landing?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:45 pm 
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Location: L.A. & Ventura Counties, CA
.
Although I expect this post will create some more forum buddies referring to me as Dick, I want to make sure that any novices reading it are aware of my point of view and that other responsible kiters share it regardless of the fact that it is barely apparent from the replies so far posted.

First, as everyone else has indicated, the kiter is ALWAYS responsible for what happens with his equipment.

However, my main point is that it is TOTALLY IRRESPONSIBLE TO LAND AND/OR LAUNCH SOMEONE ELSE'S KITE WHILE FLYING YOUR OWN.

In addition to all the EXTRA things that can go wrong during this procedure (too many to list), MANY of them involve one of the potentially MOST DANGEROUS situations encountered in kiting.

Specifically, getting 2 KITES TANGLED TOGETHER. Not only is it impossible to know how they will then react, but it is possible that there may be DOUBLE THE POWER.

Because the ONLY REASONS kiters attempt this procedure is due to their LAZINESS AND/OR INCOMPETENCE, there is virtually NEVER justification for the needless increased danger involved.

Whenever a kiter is not able to confidently self land, he should SELF RESCUE (as briefly mentioned in one post). Another, less preferred approach is to put it down in the water at the shoreline on its leash.

Somewhat more on topic, I'm at a loss to figure out how 3 lines could break.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET


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 Post subject: Re: Who is responsible for kite when landing?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:18 pm 
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Location: Denmark
Of course it is your own responsibility, no matter who takes your kite down !

Be glad noone got hurt in this situation, and pay for your own new lines (and he can pay for his if they are wasted, I think he will find that ok) - and stop whining :wink:

If you let another kitesurfer, with the kite in the air, take your kite - you KNOW there is a huge risk that something can go wrong - and hopefully he will let your kite go so just material damage, instead of killing himself if not paying attention to his own kite.

As simple as that :thumb:

:D Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Who is responsible for kite when landing?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:28 pm 
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Location: Southwestern Ontario
Shame on us, but my wife and I do this all the time. She launches my kite, I then walk out into the water and set my kite on the water away from shore, it sits at the edge of the window 90% depowererd. She walks out and hands me her kite, unwinds her lines towards shore and I launch her.
We do the reverse when we are coming back in. I would not suggest doing this on land especially considering you could instead do a tethered launch.
Most importantly you must be aware of your surroundings and the wind weather conditions. I keep one hand on her kite and the other on my release, but never had to use it...yet


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 Post subject: Re: Who is responsible for kite when landing?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:47 pm 
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Maito wrote:
No my question is whose fault it was and who must pay for new lines.


It really worries me that kitesurfing attracts people this stupid.


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