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 Post subject: Re: Who is responsible for kite when landing?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:09 am 
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At the Squamish Spit, pretty much everyone who catches the kite flips it over and sandbags. And all the riders wrap their lines before tending to the kite. I'm glad I saw this thread as I'm now aware you shouldn't expect the catcher to properly sandbag your kite elsewhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Who is responsible for kite when landing?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:20 am 
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Metaphor_ wrote:
At the Squamish Spit, pretty much everyone who catches the kite flips it over and sandbags. And all the riders wrap their lines before tending to the kite. I'm glad I saw this thread as I'm now aware you shouldn't expect the catcher to properly sandbag your kite elsewhere.


You obviously live in the perfect place to kite :thumb: What you are saying isn't a good interpretation of what has been said - you are responsible for the security of your own kite, even at your spot where catchers will sandbag your kite you are still responsible for having a look to check that it has been sandbagged!!!!!!

So at Squamish Spit if someone landed you and didn't put a sandbag on your kite you would still start to wind your lines up? No, you'd ask them to put a sandbag on it or you would go and do it yourself!!

There is always the chance of bufoonery, or someone may loose their grip and when both riders have kites in tehe air there is always additional risk but common sense and a bit of thought means that in reality its actually very easy to do

People at my beach generally hold the kite until the rider takes it from them, we have sharp shells etc which could damage a kite and some people do not like sand put on their kite, also not many people use sandbags, just use their board mainly so you have to wait for them to come over to you. It isn't rocket science.


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 Post subject: Re: Who is responsible for kite when landing?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:25 am 
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The 'pilot' is always responsible for the craft so should collect the kite from the catcher and secure it as soon as possible....often 'before' unhooking and particularly quickly where the catcher is also flying a kite. The catcher is most at risk at this point...

When I catch a kite while flying i always hold it upside down (smiling) and wait for the rider to collect it and put it down on the beach. Not because I want to be unhelpful but because the rider might not want to put the kite right where I am standing. Also...as per my comment above...I should not be mucking about with a kite on the ground if I'm flying one at the same time.


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 Post subject: Re: Who is responsible for kite when landing?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:51 am 
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:bye:


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 Post subject: Re: Who is responsible for kite when landing?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:54 am 
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tautologies wrote:
JGTR wrote:
Laughingman wrote:
Shame on us, but my wife and I do this all the time. She launches my kite, I then walk out into the water and set my kite on the water away from shore, it sits at the edge of the window 90% depowererd. She walks out and hands me her kite, unwinds her lines towards shore and I launch her.
We do the reverse when we are coming back in. I would not suggest doing this on land especially considering you could instead do a tethered launch.
Most importantly you must be aware of your surroundings and the wind weather conditions. I keep one hand on her kite and the other on my release, but never had to use it...yet


Nothing wrong with this, I do the same but we launch and land with out kites in the air, things do go wrong but you should understand how to do things safely, aslong as the kiter with the kite up stays upwind of the kite being landed and the other rider is attached to his safety then if anything goes wrong the kite just goes onto safety no harm done :thumb:



:thumb: :thumb: I agree.,..the problem lies when someone who has less kitecontrol does it...but yeah there is no real issue with this if both parties are good kitefliers and no people are close by..


There is ALWAYS something wrong with practices that needlessly increase danger. In this case, very substantially and only due to LAZINESS AND/OR INCOMPETENCE.

At the very least, it sets a BAD EXAMPLE which other LAZY and perhaps EVEN MORE INCOMPETENT kiters are liable to attempt.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET


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 Post subject: Re: Who is responsible for kite when landing?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:23 am 
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RichardM wrote:
snip...

There is ALWAYS something wrong with practices that needlessly increase danger. In this case, very substantially and only due to LAZINESS AND/OR INCOMPETENCE.

At the very least, it sets a BAD EXAMPLE which other LAZY and perhaps EVEN MORE INCOMPETENT kiters are liable to attempt.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET


I dont agree, but basically it is the principle I disagree with.

As individuals we are raised to taking care of ourselves, and not act as "lemmings".

Setting a bad example is IMO bad when something is illegal or wrong.

But doing things that less experienced should never do, is IMO not wrong (should we stop making megaloops then ?)

Of course there is a risk that some would attempt things too risky for them, but that will happen anyways for those few.


As said - I dont believe we should all do everything extremely subtle and overly protected ("super safe"), never finding the limits or new boundaries, because it could set a bad example.

I think that every individual can see through most of what is risky and what is not - and the best thing is, that we all talk to each other, and ask each other about things - so everyone will find out what is easy, difficult, and risky and not risky.

Copycats is not really a problem, as we are raised to take care individually, and NOT just do what others do without thinking.

You run a kiteschool, and of course you have a very different "goal" regarding examples - as you are the very first influence on new kitesurfers, so you HAVE to show and tell what is the "safest" way of doing everything, which is the way to do it, agree :thumb:

But I dont agree that it can be transferred to life in general, after that :naughty:

:D Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Who is responsible for kite when landing?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:15 am 
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Quote:
There is ALWAYS something wrong with practices that needlessly increase danger. In this case, very substantially and only due to LAZINESS AND/OR INCOMPETENCE.


I am not lazy or incompetent. Self launching does not SUBSTANTIALLY increase the danger, its a common practice that most people do. If you don't want to do it then fine but its a very poor attitude from someone who owns a kiteschool as no doubt most of your students will self launch at sometime and by refusing to accept the practice you put your students in MORE danger as they will have to copy someone else.

Self launching is not a technique that should be done by complete beginners and is something that can be done safely as skills improve and you understand more about how your equipment works, much the same as kite looping and jumping - or are you going to say these are too dangerous as well?

Is the safest way to not tell them about something that they are invariable going to do??


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 Post subject: Re: Who is responsible for kite when landing?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:45 am 
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Richard.

To me as long as we do not put anyone else in danger it is all good. I think making something more dangerous than it has to be with no apparent uptick makes no sense to me..however self launch self land, land while flying etc. is not a problem as long as you have a nice area with no other people around.

I do not think it increases the risk significantly.


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 Post subject: Re: Who is responsible for kite when landing?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:51 am 
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Peter_Frank wrote:
RichardM wrote:
snip...

There is ALWAYS something wrong with practices that needlessly increase danger. In this case, very substantially and only due to LAZINESS AND/OR INCOMPETENCE.

At the very least, it sets a BAD EXAMPLE which other LAZY and perhaps EVEN MORE INCOMPETENT kiters are liable to attempt.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET


I dont agree, but basically it is the principle I disagree with.

As individuals we are raised to taking care of ourselves, and not act as "lemmings".

Setting a bad example is IMO bad when something is illegal or wrong.

But doing things that less experienced should never do, is IMO not wrong (should we stop making megaloops then ?)

Of course there is a risk that some would attempt things too risky for them, but that will happen anyways for those few.


As said - I dont believe we should all do everything extremely subtle and overly protected ("super safe"), never finding the limits or new boundaries, because it could set a bad example.

I think that every individual can see through most of what is risky and what is not - and the best thing is, that we all talk to each other, and ask each other about things - so everyone will find out what is easy, difficult, and risky and not risky.

Copycats is not really a problem, as we are raised to take care individually, and NOT just do what others do without thinking.

You run a kiteschool, and of course you have a very different "goal" regarding examples - as you are the very first influence on new kitesurfers, so you HAVE to show and tell what is the "safest" way of doing everything, which is the way to do it, agree :thumb:

But I dont agree that it can be transferred to life in general, after that :naughty:

:D Peter


Very well put Peter :thumb: I completely agree. Same thing with launch spots etc, we had an argument on our UK forum about setting a bad example if launching from a sketchy spot. But if you are experienced and confident in your ability to look after yourself and can handle the situation then why should you be prevented just in case somebody less experienced decides to copy?

It is up to the individual to decide if they are competent enough to do a certain thing. For example I would not launch myself off a cliff with a wing suit just because I saw Jeb Corliss doing it..


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 Post subject: Re: Who is responsible for kite when landing?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:26 am 
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Quote:
It is up to the individual to decide if they are competent enough to do a certain thing. For example I would not launch myself off a cliff with a wing suit just because I saw Jeb Corliss doing it..


Just like all those people who killed themselves jumping over piers after watching Lewis.......oh wait no one did :lol:


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