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Handle passes too dangerous long-term for shoulders?

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icebird
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Re: Handle passes too dangerous long-term for shoulders?

Postby icebird » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:33 am

Larse, how about kettlebell military press with relatively light weight?

notice how the weight is rotated up, not forced up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIJopHx7LWc



It seems to me to combine moderate strength building with stability and none of the heavyweight stress.

I know each injury is different but in my experience moderate use is better than no use even if slightly painful ...
I did some of those presses with a weaker left shoulder due to mild pain from breaking up old injury after a ski crash. Eventually my injured left shoulder got free of pain and became as strong as the right shoulder. My original injury years earlier was caused by stress in a bad position, and was fixed by going on a motorcycle trip! In both cases more than a years rest did not solve the problem, it only reduced it a bit, but a short period of active work fixed it.

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Re: Handle passes too dangerous long-term for shoulders?

Postby besttaste » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:52 pm

I have applied both kettlebell training, high-intensity crossfit and roll outs. During winter with a wheel and recently with rings. I see that the shoulder is more straight here compared to your 45 degree angle. If the excersice is performed properly will it have any negative impact besides all the positive? the supercompensation period is very interesting. And there is something about those 72 hours. On Sunday I did 5x 12-15 reps on the rings like below and 5x 8-12 reps with shoulders like flyers (see second video) and today, even after 48 hours, I am damn sore. It's first tomorrow that I will do any upperback&shoulder training, and then about 72hours will have passed.




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Re: Handle passes too dangerous long-term for shoulders?

Postby John Doe » Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:10 pm

+10 on plummet's quote below. These guys that are doing these tricks don't know the effects there will be 10 years from now because no one was doing them 10 years ago. Time will tell but I think my wife summed it up when we were at a world class spot, she said, "it really says something when all the 20 year old pro guys are walking around in knee braces".

plummet wrote:
Larse wrote:If you do the right exercises to prevent it, you shouldn't get .


I used to believe this up to my late 30's. But now I think this is incorrect.
Sure you can reduce the chance of injury. But ultimately if you expose your body to repeated trauma(extreme exerice and crashing) it will become damaged not matter how much prevention you undertake.

This is something your average dude in his 20's does not believe will happen to him.

I think the reality is you need to ask the question. Is this style of riding worth wrecking my body for the rest of my life.?

If the answer is yes. Carry on.

If no. A change is required.

I faced this same question 8 years ago when I was racing downhill mountainbikes nationally.
The answer was no. I could not carry on and improve my current skill level without high risk.

So I sought a sort to give me the same thrill will less risk. kiting popped up and now my sport of choice for crazy to risk level ratio.

But I limit what I do to preserve my body so I can carry on for another 30+ years of action.

For me the risk of injury for wake style is too high. I'm not interested.

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Re: Handle passes too dangerous long-term for shoulders?

Postby Osprey1 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:26 pm

What about Stand Up Paddle Board training for help in reducing shoulder injuries?

I get out about 3 times a week and paddle 4 to 5 miles at a race pace. I can only assume that paddling greatly strengthens all of the small muscles within the shoulder.

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Re: Handle passes too dangerous long-term for shoulders?

Postby fdvj » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:52 pm

I am 42 and just moving into handle passes, My aim is to nail back mobes and flat 3s then stop :D
and buy a surfboard.

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Re: Handle passes too dangerous long-term for shoulders?

Postby plummet » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:10 am

Oldnbroken wrote:It's difficult to gauge the price, when all the crash-crash / bang-bang stuff is so much fun! :D
I am now 54 and a bit busted up, but even at 40 years old, I had no concept of what was coming.
When things started breaking, it was a big surprise to me, somehow I assumed that my body was just gonna stay the same forever, I felt kind of dumb when I realized that I was breakable.



Yeah man. I here what you are saying. I am the same. come 32 I knew I couldn't carry on downhilling because of the reduced amount of time I had after starting a family. At that point It never occurred to me that I would or could perminantly wreck my body.

Its only until the last couple years I've discovered i'm actually wearing out... (i'm 41 now)

Any way after 20 years of mountainbiking in all disciplines I have legs muscles that are strong as hell and can handle untold hours of kiting... but my knees are blown. I can't ride toeside long apart from down the line or I get pain. for that matter I can walk up stairs without some discomfort...

I've done a lot long distance landboarding which is real hard on the hips and knees also. I think I wore my hip joints considerably when I did the first ever 24hr kitelandboard. I want to take back my world record that I lost recently. But dammit I think if I attempt another 24hr it will screw my hips to a point of needed surgery.

I usually break fall on my right side and have a stuffed up right wrist because that. Think I've busted another ligament or 2 recently. ahhhh....

bring on the stem cell research I say!

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Re: Handle passes too dangerous long-term for shoulders?

Postby Kiteus Polaris » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:50 am

fdvj wrote:I am 42 and just moving into handle passes, My aim is to nail back mobes and flat 3s then stop :D
and buy a surfboard.


Good luck with the stopping :!: :D

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Re: Handle passes too dangerous long-term for shoulders?

Postby Jan:) » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:06 pm

I think the most dangerous part is, when the condition are bad and you just can't let it go.

Like when it's too windy or gusty or both and you think, "Ok, I need to stick just this one trick".
The crashes then are more dangerous than riding half a year in perfectly controlled conditions.

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Re: Handle passes too dangerous long-term for shoulders?

Postby MattyRossJa » Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:55 pm

I dislocated my shoulder in December. I so far have refused to handle passes since, I didn't dislocate it while doing a handle pass, but now i feel i have to really take care of the shoulder so i have been staying away from them. maybe by the end of the year i'll see how confident I am to start doing them.

Yoga has helped immensely to get that shoulder stress up and to get the range of motion and flexibility back. I recommend everyone to take up Yoga regardless of any current injuries.

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Re: Handle passes too dangerous long-term for shoulders?

Postby Larse » Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:08 am

icebird wrote:Larse, how about kettlebell military press with relatively light weight?

notice how the weight is rotated up, not forced up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIJopHx7LWc



It seems to me to combine moderate strength building with stability and none of the heavyweight stress.

I know each injury is different but in my experience moderate use is better than no use even if slightly painful ...
I did some of those presses with a weaker left shoulder due to mild pain from breaking up old injury after a ski crash. Eventually my injured left shoulder got free of pain and became as strong as the right shoulder. My original injury years earlier was caused by stress in a bad position, and was fixed by going on a motorcycle trip! In both cases more than a years rest did not solve the problem, it only reduced it a bit, but a short period of active work fixed it.


If you hold on to the KB the other way around, so that point of gravity is in front of you, it will force you to stabilize the shoulder blade as well. So that's a good thing :) But no exercices can make up for those i linked in the beginning of the thread...

SUP is a good all round training, but not very specific on the shoulders. If you get tired in your upper back, you can even stabilize your shoulder very wrong by petruding your shoulder blades in every stroke and thereby making your shoulder more unstable. So when SUP'ing you have to focus on keeping your shoulder blades in place!


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