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 Post subject: Re: Moving to C-Kites.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:54 pm 
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Location: Ford Lake, Michigan
a lot of people are riding C kites with a tensioned 5th line --- this is almost the same as riding a modern hybrid C kite with a bridle, you get the C kite experience, but the tensioned 5th line acts to depower the kite when you push out the bar, so the kite goes upwind better and also when you drop the bar, the tensioned 5th line acts to prevent the kite from dragging you around as much. It's different experience riding a C kite with a slack or no 5th line. This development isn't new, people were rigging their C kites with tensioned 5th lines back in the early 2000's. naish Torch, Best GP, North Vegas all ride with a tensioned 5th line. The fuel rides 4 lines so it pulls downwind harder than the other C kites.

I think everyone should ride C kites at least once, it's fun and it helps you at least to learn to edge properly so it's a good learning experience. Then after you learn how to ride a C kite you can go back to a bridled kite.
Nothing wrong with a hybrid kite either like an RPM or c4.


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 Post subject: Re: Moving to C-Kites.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:30 pm 
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Yeah - take a wrong turn on the Vegas and it will start looping you onto the beach even in marginal wind. Shoot out the bar and it stops instantly and waits for input to get directed back up. Beginners won't have the refleks to do that though. Otherwise a very easy and predictable kite.


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 Post subject: Re: Moving to C-Kites.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:19 pm 
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Location: They don't call them the GREAT Lakes for nothin'...
This thread makes ma hungry for a 13, 11 & 9m Fuel quiver ...

I also heard Hadlow Pros are delicious ...

And what about those Torches ? ...

Hmmm ... :?:

:naughty:


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 Post subject: Re: Moving to C-Kites.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:21 pm 
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jats2k9 wrote:
Well, the reason why I would like to try C kites (other than getting into wakestyle), is because of the quick reaction to input these kites have (I have noticed this on videos, and on the few C kite riders at my spot. I've never tried one) .


RPM reacts much faster to bar input than Fuel. It is not all C kites that react fast. I love my Fuels mostly because they don't. Torch and Vegas are a different story though.

Gioro_T wrote:
This thread makes ma hungry for a 13, 11 & 9m Fuel quiver ...

I also heard Hadlow Pros are delicious ...

And what about those Torches ? ...

Hmmm ... :?:

:naughty:


Don't know about Hadlows, but Fuel and Torch are completely different kites. Don't buy one without trying.


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 Post subject: Re: Moving to C-Kites.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:38 am 
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JGTR wrote:
C kites aren't all about wake style, they offer direct feel and predictable handling. As a unhooked newbie (which I still am :P ) I found C kites to be much more user friendly, the bow kites that I were using would just yank me straight off the water when unhooked and would basically keep pulling until well after I had landed. The C kites would give a nice pull when loaded and as soon as I was airbourne the pull reduces so you don't get spanked - slack with regard to unhooked isn't just for the pros doing mobes etc it also for us mere mortals. In addition C kites just behave alot better unhooked, after crashing the kite will just go to 12 and sit there and can be hooked in very easily wheras bow kites you have to fight them. The myth about C kites is that they are power machines - in certain circumstances they are but in general they are more stable, smoother through the sky, have more predictable power production and behave in a consistent and predictable manner when unhooked.

Disadvantages???? None :thumb:

In all seriousness - disadvantages are not as great wind range so sometime you need more kites, relaunch not as easy as bows (but this will only take a few sessions to sort out so it isn't really a problem), a bit more harder on the arms and legs than some of the bow kites and you have to wear boardies over your wetties, ride boots and call everyone bro...is is it bra or blood????



^^ Spot on.

edt wrote:
Then after you learn how to ride a C kite you can go back to a bridled kite.


...but you won't.


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 Post subject: Re: Moving to C-Kites.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:58 am 
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Quote:
this is almost the same as riding a modern hybrid C kite with a bridle, you get the C kite experience, but the tensioned 5th line acts to depower the kite when you push out the bar


I'm not sure I agree with this, the 5th line does act to support the LE but not for depower. With a 5th line the leading edge can be made smaller which improves aerodynamic performance and the 5th line will help to stabilise the shape of the kite when loaded up for jumps/turns/loops which improve stability and power delievery. Depower on a modern C kite is due to the shape of the kite. I have a set of 2006 Naish Ravens which have a loaded 5th line but have minimal depower traditionally associated with C kites.

Quote:
Then after you learn how to ride a C kite you can go back to a bridled kite


From what I've seen people rarely do this - if you can fly a bridled kite you can easily fly a C kite and vice versa.

Quote:
but Fuel and Torch are completely different kites


I what way?....both look pretty similar to me - I've never flown a Fuel but pretty sure it isn't hard, its just a kite at the end of the day all the same rules apply? Maybe not great for a beginner but if you can fly a bridled kite to a competent standard then you'll have no problems with any modern C kite :thumb: With regard to Torches, I like them because:

1. No canopy distortion when under load
2. Predictable - same characteristics across a wide wind range hooked and unhooked
3. Not too agressive, smooth power delievery
4. Direct feed back through the bar
5. Very well behaved when unhooked, not a constant pull

Quote:
Yeah - take a wrong turn on the Vegas and it will start looping you onto the beach even in marginal wind


Really? Vegas's are very popular at my beach and I've never seen anything like this happen - infact alot of the beginners that move onto them absolutely love them :heartface: :heartface: :heartface:


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 Post subject: Re: Moving to C-Kites.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:24 pm 
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JGTR wrote:
Really? Vegas's are very popular at my beach and I've never seen anything like this happen - infact alot of the beginners that move onto them absolutely love them :heartface: :heartface: :heartface:


As I said, it is very easy and predictable so it shouldn't happen easily. I am just pointing out that it has the potential to very quickly generate a lot of power and move you a fair distance if you do not pay attention, or if you hit a stone near the beach like I did recently. But in these cases you can quickly depower to avoid any beach dragging and beginners moving on from their first kite should be able to do this.

On another occasion I almost stuck my toe through a wetsuit boot after wedging my foot deep into the strap resisting the kite gone into a loop. Nothing dangerous - I just tried to avoid crashing the kite after crashing myself. This is 2013. The 2009 Vegas is much more gentle in loops and even more responsive to steering, but less friendly in gusts and water relaunch. I'd say most anyone could have the 2009 Vegas as their first kite.


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 Post subject: Re: Moving to C-Kites.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:01 pm 
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JGTR wrote:
line the leading edge can be made smaller which improves aerodynamic performance and the 5th line will help to stabilise the shape of the kite when loaded up for jumps/turns/loops which improve stability and power delievery.


that's definitely true too. I think it's ok to go back to a bridled kite especially as you get older and decide to explore waves & strapless, less punishment to the body as long as you have tried out the C kites and understand what is going on there.


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 Post subject: Re: Moving to C-Kites.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:56 pm 
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edt wrote:
JGTR wrote:
line the leading edge can be made smaller which improves aerodynamic performance and the 5th line will help to stabilise the shape of the kite when loaded up for jumps/turns/loops which improve stability and power delievery.


that's definitely true too. I think it's ok to go back to a bridled kite especially as you get older and decide to explore waves & strapless, less punishment to the body as long as you have tried out the C kites and understand what is going on there.


Yes I understand, agree with you as I'm getting old and don't kite as much I do sometimes wish I had something a bit more user friendly :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: Moving to C-Kites.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:13 pm 
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Quote:
5th line does act to support the LE but not for depower.

...depends...
Rode a 15m 2005 fuel with tensioned 5th, could hold it up to 25 knots with about a foot of 5th pulled in. Went upwind better with 4-8inches pulled in, max grunt etc with slack 5th. very helpful in relaunch.

Rode 2006 12m airush reactor with 5th, a little tension on it made kite more stable, but no impact on depower, and upwind was fine either way as kite flew more forward... Definitely liked it for relaunching that kite...

Rode 2009 11m fuel with 5th for a while. Did help against getting hurt on crashes, did not help move the kite in the window or depower very much. Gave canopy a super solid feel in gusty wind which was nice. Wrapped kite offshore on a downwinder finally though, and that was the last time I rigged it with 5 lines!

Rode 2011 fuel with 5th line, again no difference in depower or upwind I could see, some help in crashing/bar throwing, quickly gave it up though, just not really needed....


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