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 Post subject: Re: Cloud 17 Full Review vs. Speed 3 21meter
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:01 am 
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Kamikuza wrote:
What's up with that these days? Seems nobody cares about it, including manufacturers. Flew the 17m Draft last week and basically had to keep two hands on the bar as the pressure was so much that I couldn't fly it one-handed! Wasn't going upwind so I doubt I was over-powered...

Really? I have ridden that kite and though the bar pressure is more than the Park I had no problems riding it for hours. On a raceboard I am ride one-handed a lot. I don't really turn the kite with one hand though. I'll pay closer attention next time I go out.

I think the bar pressure often is a just a product of the brand trying to listen to customers. Some like lower bar pressure and some like higher bar pressure..these groups will voice their opinion once it is not how they like it. What will the brand do? They will change the bar pressure a bit.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloud 17 Full Review vs. Speed 3 21meter
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:37 am 
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Maybe I've been spoiled... I can fly the Flite all day one-handed - and it's not on the lightest setting.

The Draft was all... sheet in, heavy pressure. Sheet out, no change, no change, no change then FLAPPITY FLAPPITY the kite is wanting to front stall and there's no bar pressure at all. The guy who owns them or at least is given them by Naish, only ever rides the 14...

Can't hold with one hand is over-the-top bar pressure IMO ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Cloud 17 Full Review vs. Speed 3 21meter
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:03 am 
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Location: Miami @ 6" Flat Butter!
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Last edited by DrLightWind on Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cloud 17 Full Review vs. Speed 3 21meter
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:40 am 
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Kamikuza wrote:
Maybe I've been spoiled... I can fly the Flite all day one-handed - and it's not on the lightest setting.

The Draft was all... sheet in, heavy pressure. Sheet out, no change, no change, no change then FLAPPITY FLAPPITY the kite is wanting to front stall and there's no bar pressure at all. The guy who owns them or at least is given them by Naish, only ever rides the 14...

Can't hold with one hand is over-the-top bar pressure IMO ;)


haha yeah maybe...I know they are over testing a lot.
Now to offer an explanation that makes sense to me on the bar pressure..if I compare it to the charger..a kite I liked for racing..the draft feels so much better. The Charger had a bit lighter bar pressure and whenever a gust hit my board I would adjust a few degrees downwind as I could not sheet out enough to hold my tack. On the Draft there is a bit more pressure on the backlines that leads me to hold my upwind tack and adjust more on the bar.

I've ridden the kite with a TT too and had a good time..


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 Post subject: Re: Cloud 17 Full Review vs. Speed 3 21meter
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:31 pm 
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Last edited by DrLightWind on Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cloud 17 Full Review vs. Speed 3 21meter
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:10 pm 
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NYKiter wrote:
Flew my buddy's 21m 3 speed for the first time today in 8-10knots.
After flying both the 13m and 17m cloud I can say the flysurfer was hands down way more fun to fly. It was like a Cadillac - very cushy, very light bar pressure and an amazing magic carpet. That said I would still purchase a cloud because of the relaunch capacity, quick turning and price point. Certainly does make me wonder what the 12m fly surfers are like....
:jump:


12m fly surfers? um..............F U N :)

pm me and I'll try and hook you up with a new one for a killer deal. No promises NYKiter, I just know someone. ;)

I fly the 19M and 12M Speed 3's and a 6M Unity (6M Unity not available anymore)

David :)


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 Post subject: Re: Cloud 17 Full Review vs. Speed 3 21meter
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:51 pm 
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DrLightWind wrote:
I’m glad you guys started talking about the “Tone” language education. :cheers:
When you think about Dynamic Systems, “Supa” Compliance is also a factor,
not just light weight of the kite with clouded judgement advised also by “ToeSide” :advise:
Because if you can't effectively apply Fully the force at the bar you feel for upwind
and if you need to sine the kite until the apparent wind kicks in;
than it is INEFFICIENT and hardly enjoyable through the "Divine Wind"
especially when also got Teabagged :alarm:
Appears to be Bill Hansen knows compliance factor more than anybody else. :clap:

DrLW


Nice use of smilies :wink:
I know it is real nice and convenient to have a kite that fits any 4 line bar out there
However i believe kiters would have a better experience if it was supplied with it's own bar/lines
One step further would be using Flysurfer philosophy with lines "on attached" ready to fly
This eliminates errors on the part of the kiter using his own unknown control system
Why take such a chance.....kite and control system need to complement each other

The success for this new kite would increase...and it's performance overall also
Bar width....line length.....all are factors that affect each Cloud size that are available

My 2-4 nuts cents

:cheers: :pump: :party1: :surf: :sun:


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 Post subject: Re: Cloud 17 Full Review vs. Speed 3 21meter
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:56 pm 
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I just noticed this post. I own the Speed 3 21, 15, 12 and Zephyr. I also bought a Cloud 17. I have been kiting in light winds since 2000. I also own a Dyno 18.

It is true that Greg at Boardrider Maui is a great guy with excellent customer service. The Cloud arrived in a very small package. I first tested the Cloud on the snow. The wind at first was very light and other riders were out on Zephyr's. I had a more difficult time keeping the Cloud in the air compared to the Zephyr's. I did check my line length to make sure all the lines were even in length. The Cloud flies very differently than a Zephyr or a Speed. I was disappointed because it did not have a lot of range, so in a good gust it would yank you. Normally, I just send the kite when I am getting yanked, but with the Cloud there was nothing there, just a tiny jump. My experience on the water was similar. I think the Cloud has its place for wave riding in light, steady wind it probably excels. I am thinking that it would be a good kite for riding in San Diego with a surf board. However, it does not fit with my riding style. I usually ride inland lakes with more variable wind. I find the Zephyr and Speed 3 to have a lot more range and better boosting capabilities.

As far as low-end, the Cloud does not come close to the Speed3 21m. I did not expect it to as the projected area on the Cloud is so much smaller. I was hoping that it would be a good contender for the Zephyr, but I found the Zephyr to be a much more precise and fun kite to fly. I should mention that I am using a 2013 Zephyr. Ozone lightened up the bar pressure significantly on the 2013. I am not a big fan of the Dyno 18. Like the Cloud it lacks range. However, unlike the Cloud, it will boost to the moon.

You may wonder, why I own a Zephyr and a Speed 3 15? Well, they are both fun. If I want a fast setup, I pull out the Speed. However, I prefer the tighter turning radius of the Zephyr for down loops.

I could say a lot more about these kites, but this post is long enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloud 17 Full Review vs. Speed 3 21meter
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:02 pm 
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fernmanus wrote:
As far as low-end, the Cloud does not come close to the Speed3 21m.


If a Cloud 17 can keep up with a SP3 21 in light wind (10 kn and less) it means 2 things
The guy (similar weight & board) on the Cloud 17 is real good at milking and finessing
The guy (similar weight & board) on the SP3 21 sucks

Let's also add that many people think 12 knots is 10 knots...10 knots is 8 knots...8 knots is 6 knots...
......and my all time favorite....believe that 6 knots is 2-4 nuts !!

..................... :desperado: :housewife: :happybirthday: :wall1: :redcard: ......................................


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 Post subject: Re: Cloud 17 Full Review vs. Speed 3 21meter
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:35 pm 
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:chorus: :chorus: :chorus: :anon: :anon: :anon: :desperado: :desperado: :desperado: :happybirthday: :happybirthday: :happybirthday: :happybirthday: :happybirthday: :housewife: :housewife: :housewife: :housewife:


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