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 Post subject: Re: Do you want to turn your Epic bar into something Usable?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:12 pm 
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Great post!
That switch cleat system is pretty nice...
:bye:


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 Post subject: Re: Do you want to turn your Epic bar into something Usable?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:31 am 
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Location: Montreal, Canada / NJ, USA
Had a chance to test the bar out Today with the 7m Renegade. So much better!!! Lots of bar throw, lots of trimming capability and the trimmer is actually holding!!! If anything I was a little surprised to find out that the bar is actually rather heavy when untwisting after a loop in comparison to my main Naish bar and especially to F-One's bar from my 10m B6

One other reason why I wanted to do the mod - was to try small kites on 15m lines - and I've managed to do it Today as well. It was an interesting experience, but not something I'd want to redo in any near future, switching back to 22m felt right at home though I still think that the sweetspot for smaller kites is ~20m


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 Post subject: Re: Do you want to turn your Epic bar into something Usable?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:28 am 
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alexeyga,
The new 4G EPIC BAR has a lot of throw then the previous bars and this is the reason why I can hold my SCREAMER 12 (4G) in 30+++ knots. Again it's not fun in 27+++ knots, but I can hold it way better then using the other previous bars just because of the more throw I have now on the 4G BAR.
Plus using the 15 meter lines that comes with all the RENEGADE models is not for every one. People that uses 15 meters are people that want to teach, want to do extreme kite loops or want to venture in the ocean and get a real feel of surfing the waves. Me personally, I always use 15m lines in the surf.
Any way, now if you want to retrofit your old bar with the new 4G CHICKEN LOOP you can do it very easy as you've seen it on the previous page.
:thumb:


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Dimitri teaching his 3 year old son on 15m lines.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Do you want to turn your Epic bar into something Usable?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:28 am 
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Location: The Naki
alexeyga wrote:
You're in the right place then! :thumb:

If you - just like me - were stupid enough to buy an Epic bar for your Epic (or non-Epic) kites, and if you're just like me - tired and fed up with Epic's "epical" customer service - you probably have one or two Epic bars laying around with a non-working trimmer or some other epically-failed piece.

But there's hope! So hang on!

As far as my bar is concerned, I've simply refused re-placing these faulty trimmers that were failing at a stupid rate and decided to do it my way. So here's an easy, step-by-step guide:

First and foremost, I've started by ordering some parts from Dimitri's best friends at: http://switchkites.com/
I've got the fallowing:
Attachment:
SWITCH-SHOPPING LIST.jpg


That actually came out cheaper than 3 "under warranty" replacement trimmers from Dimitri, have no idea how that's possible!!!

Please note that replacing your Epic chicken loop is optional - my mod would've worked with the stock Epic chicken loop just as well. However I always hated mine since it's damaging the bar, creaking and cracking when jumping and unhooking when you don't want it too. There were also reports that it jams up completely and doesn't release when you really need it to... soooo long story short - I've replaced mine with the one from Switch even if it's the most expensive item on the list.

Then you'd need to find or to make a trimmer handle as Switch doesn't sell one. I made one my-self, but rumor is - North's is a direct fit:
Attachment:
NorthTrustBar-L3.jpg


After getting all the parts:

Attachment:
_K5_0288.jpg


Next step would be to find a solid 1-3 hours of your time, a clean space to lay everything down and some peace from the outside world. Here's the dreaded thing:

Attachment:
_K5_0292.jpg


Please note that i've detached the flying lines.

And here's the main source of frustration towards this bar:

Attachment:
_K5_0287.jpg


Along with the chickenloop (note the damage to the bar):
Attachment:
_K5_0285.jpg



Now... GUT THE DAMN THING!!!:

Attachment:
_K5_0293.jpg


Only items worth keeping are the stopper, the ball that goes underneath it and both front leaders (from where you front lines split).

And re-assemble everything with Switch parts, make sure to re-install both the stopper and the ball exactly the same way as it was stock:

Attachment:
_K5_0295.jpg

Attachment:
_K5_0301.jpg

Attachment:
_K5_0302.jpg


Here goes my beautiful, hand-made handle (a 4th version actually - to be perfectly honest):

Attachment:
_K5_0306.jpg


Note that i've already added velcro tabs on the trimmer body.

Isn't she something???:

Attachment:
_K5_0305.jpg


B.T.W. Now would be a good time to scream "Huston!!! We have a problem!!!":

Attachment:
_K5_0305_wtf.jpg


VS the stock one:

Attachment:
_K5_0292_stock.jpg


Exactly! The new setup is about 14-15" shorter than the stock one. There are 2 possible solutions:
1)Cut the rear leaders to length and make new knots with figure-8-s.
2)Find another way which requires less cutting and splicing

I went with the #2 - hey mom look, what do we have here???:

Attachment:
_K5_0308.jpg


I'll be damned!!!:

Attachment:
_K5_0309.jpg


Basically i've removed both left end right leaders that are under the foams and attached the longer segments directly to the bar:

Attachment:
_K5_0311.jpg

Attachment:
_K5_0312.jpg


Now we've got some meat to work with:

Attachment:
_K5_0314.jpg


And voila!:

Attachment:
_K5_0316.jpg


DONE!!!! Now however the front leaders are about 2" longer than the rear ones, but that's nothing that cannot be solved with adjustment through knots and line stretching. Stock Epic lines are very stretching-friendly... very-very!!!!

Attachment:
_K5_0318.jpg


Attachment:
_K5_0326.jpg


Attachment:
_K5_0334.jpg


Attachment:
_K5_0329.jpg


She's ready to go:

Attachment:
_K5_0338.jpg



Points worth noting:
1)Apparently i've got a newer version of the Switch chickenloop and it comes with 2 simple nuts that you have to tighten against each other instead of a single nylon-lock-nut like it used to be. The catch is that these 2 nuts are very thin an require a metric 17mm key that isn't that easy to find to begin with, yet alone in thin version. I've managed with some unorthodox tooling that I don't really want to discuss in details, but I'd like to add that it's a good idea to apply some thread-locker in the process.
2)Yes I'm aware that I removed the Oh-shit handle from the steering line. It was rather useless to begin with, but I might install it later on one of the front leaders - a very easy mod.
3)I've re-installed the still rings on the rear leaders as stoppers for the foams - just made a figure-8 knot through the ring.
4)That's about it!


A personal message to Dimitri and his dogs:

Attachment:
Epic-Customer-Service-Sign.jpg


Well, actually there isn't much to say after that rather self-explanatory picture...

Can't help wondering if all that crap is worth packing and shipping back to Epic:

Attachment:
_K5_0321.jpg


I'll post some feedback when I'll get a chance to test the new bar. Can't be worse than it was from factory - that's for sure!!!

Nice. It's always good to mod stuff so it suits you better.


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 Post subject: Re: Do you want to turn your Epic bar into something Usable?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:00 pm 
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plummet wrote:
Nice. It's always good to mod stuff so it suits you better.


There's a fair bit of difference between modding something "to suit you better" and completely re-building the thing with other brand's parts because "something" is a piece of outdated and badly manufactured garbage to begin with.

Dimitri,
Thanks for polluting the thread with your usual pimping. Great marketing strategy b.t.w. :thumb: First you sell everybody a crappy product and then you start offering them an "upgrade" kit! Keep up the good work dude! :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: Do you want to turn your Epic bar into something Usable?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:35 pm 
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Quote:
Dimitri,
Thanks for polluting the thread with your usual pimping. Great marketing strategy b.t.w. :thumb: First you sell everybody a crappy product and then you start offering them an "upgrade" kit! Keep up the good work dude! :thumb:

alexeyga,
I am sorry but I don't pollute the EPIC thread at all. I am just responding to your post by giving people accurate information, photos and videos. In few words, I have to let people know what's really going on since I am the owner of the EPIC brand. I never sold any crappy product and if I did then why are you still flying and buying the EPIC kites!!!! I think that is the question most of the people are asking.
When I started the EPIC brand 4 years ago I did not have a Chicken Loop to go with our XTEND BAR. So I had to borrow a CL from another trusty brand in order to be able to work on our own EPIC Chicken Loop. Now that we finally finished our EPIC 4G Chicken Loop after many years of work, it is yours to do the upgrade if you want to.
And by the way, thank you for your advice about keeping up the good work. This is the reason why we are getting so many orders and so many dealers wanting to promote the Epic brand.
:thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: Do you want to turn your Epic bar into something Usable?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:28 pm 
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Dimitri M wrote:
I am sorry but I don't pollute the EPIC thread at all. I am just responding to your post by giving people accurate information, photos and videos. In few words, I have to let people know what's really going on since I am the owner of the EPIC brand. I never sold any crappy product and if I did then why are you still flying and buying the EPIC kites!!!! I think that is the question most of the people are asking.
When I started the EPIC brand 4 years ago I did not have a Chicken Loop to go with our XTEND BAR. So I had to borrow a CL from another trusty brand in order to be able to work on our own EPIC Chicken Loop. Now that we finally finished our EPIC 4G Chicken Loop after many years of work, it is yours to do the upgrade if you want to.
And by the way, thank you for your advice about keeping up the good work. This is the reason why we are getting so many orders and so many dealers wanting to promote the Epic brand.
:thumb:


Dimitri,
It might be a surprise for you, since you obviously seem to have reading and comprehension issues, but out of all the reasons why I first ditched your piece-of-sh#t bar and now re-built it with Switch parts, that chicken loop - that you're so hysterical about - is the least of my concerns. It was crappy, but it did the job in the contrary to the trimmer. B.t.w. from the photos that you've posted it seems that the teethed buckle is still plastic.

Attachment:
IMG_1777 11.jpg
IMG_1777 11.jpg [ 195.02 KIB | Viewed 424 times ]


So not only you're trying to milk people by offering them an "upgrade kit", but it still comes with a defective trimmer? You're a piece of work - you know that? Like I've told you before - don't get too surprised to see people dumping your brand - it won't be because you make bad kites. But because of the way how you address issues and how you treat your clients. Cheers mate!


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 Post subject: Re: Do you want to turn your Epic bar into something Usable?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:43 pm 
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Location: OUTER BANKS (NC) USA. Owner of EPICKITES
Quote:
Dimitri,
It might be a surprise for you, since you obviously seem to have reading and comprehension issues, but out of all the reasons why I first ditched your piece-of-sh#t bar and now re-built it with Switch parts, that chicken loop - that you're so hysterical about - is the least of my concerns. It was crappy, but it did the job in the contrary to the trimmer. B.t.w. from the photos that you've posted it seems that the teethed buckle is still plastic.
So not only you're trying to milk people by offering them an "upgrade kit", but it still comes with a defective trimmer? You're a piece of work - you know that? Like I've told you before - don't get too surprised to see people dumping your brand - it won't be because you make bad kites. But because of the way how you address issues and how you treat your clients.

With all due respect Mr.alexeyga, but the "4G XTEND BAR" and the "4G CL RETROFIT ACCESSORY KIT" will have a metal buckle on the Depower Strap (see attach pictures). But will also be selling the Depower Strap with a plastic buckle for people that want the plastic instead of the metal because lots of people still want to keep the plastic one.
So as you can see I am trying the best I can to make every body happy including you.

Now concerning treating my clients.... I have a lot of respects towards all my clients and that is the reason why we are doing so well because of the info I am getting from all of them, plus the customer service we have and the amazing performance and quality of our products makes us who we are today.
I don't see any other kite company owners stick their neck out like that. That takes a lot of balls and a lot of time if you see what I mean.

Any way, let me know if you need anything else and please watch your language because most of us are civilized kiters here.
Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Do you want to turn your Epic bar into something Usable?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:55 pm 
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Never had any issue with the QR or the depower strap :thumb:

The EPIC bar is simple and never surprised me in a bad way :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Do you want to turn your Epic bar into something Usable?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:07 pm 
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Miste alexeyga you can see some realy big megaloops using the Epic bar....never had a problem with it...so find some time and guts to test the bar in REALY EXTREME conditions and then do the mods that you re saying.....we have a word for people like you in Greece....you are a big MALAKAS. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:





45+ maybe 50 or 10!!!! bfts!! if you want


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