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 Post subject: Re: kite fatality conclusions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:38 pm 
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Another problem is do I rig for the average or the gust. Its a tough call at times. A twelve will be perfect for the average( say 17 to 20mph) but a handful if its gusting to 30 or beyond. I personal go with the smaller kite and my large board. With my big twin tip I can ride my 9m in 17to 20mph and still handle strong gust. I know lots of guys that love to ride fully powered so they can boost which is great. But if you are rigged so you are fully powered in the lulls you are going to be seriously overpowered in the gust.
Bottom line is gusty condition suck. If you go big, get out and stay out where you are safer.


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 Post subject: Re: kite fatality conclusions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:52 pm 
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Two seshes ago I was on a 6m for two hours. I rigged low for the max gust. I was literally working the kite through the holes 75% of the time and then barely able to park it through the gusts the other 25% of the time....my arms were falling off....great lakes winds are notorious for DIRTY wind. I think when the ratio of sining to parking is over 60% the wind range may be too big....
:giveup:


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 Post subject: Re: kite fatality conclusions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:28 pm 
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Location: Ford Lake, Michigan
I think you can narrow it down to three simple elements

1) high wind
2) land
3) trained QR reflex


1) I would consider anything above 25 knots high wind. 2) Launching and landing is the most dangerous part of kiting because we do it on land. 3) Throwing the safety twice a year is not sufficient to train the QR reflex.

Once you have experience I think the level of risk is up to you, but newbies need to be guided so they don't take risks they don't know about yet.


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 Post subject: Re: kite fatality conclusions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:46 pm 
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I agree with edt and will add that in my opinion, sometimes the toughest and maybe most important decision is to choose "not here, not now" when you really really want to kite but recognize that conditions are adding more risk than you feel is acceptable. It's so hard to say no to kiting, and extreme conditions are so fun you can get yourself lured into situations that you might be best avoiding. It's a battle between your love and lust for kiting and your own best judgment. Inexperienced people may not have yet developed the judgment that comes with time, and can be more easily fooled into accepting risks that they aren't even aware of.

edt wrote:
I think you can narrow it down to three simple elements

1) high wind
2) land
3) trained QR reflex


1) I would consider anything above 25 knots high wind. 2) Launching and landing is the most dangerous part of kiting because we do it on land. 3) Throwing the safety twice a year is not sufficient to train the QR reflex.

Once you have experience I think the level of risk is up to you, but newbies need to be guided so they don't take risks they don't know about yet.


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 Post subject: Re: kite fatality conclusions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:04 pm 
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loco4viento wrote:
I agree with edt and will add that in my opinion, sometimes the toughest and maybe most important decision is to choose "not here, not now" when you really really want to kite but recognize that conditions are adding more risk than you feel is acceptable. It's so hard to say no to kiting, and extreme conditions are so fun you can get yourself lured into situations that you might be best avoiding. It's a battle between your love and lust for kiting and your own best judgment. Inexperienced people may not have yet developed the judgment that comes with time, and can be more easily fooled into accepting risks that they aren't even aware of.

edt wrote:
I think you can narrow it down to three simple elements

1) high wind
2) land
3) trained QR reflex


1) I would consider anything above 25 knots high wind. 2) Launching and landing is the most dangerous part of kiting because we do it on land. 3) Throwing the safety twice a year is not sufficient to train the QR reflex.

Once you have experience I think the level of risk is up to you, but newbies need to be guided so they don't take risks they don't know about yet.




That's why I still love my windsurfing. If its honking I'm going old school. Just as much fun in high winds and no fear of dying.


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 Post subject: Re: kite fatality conclusions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:41 pm 
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matth wrote:
...

That's why I still love my windsurfing. If its honking I'm going old school. Just as much fun in high winds and no fear of dying.


I've started a few threads that asked when will the kites we use
in kite-boarding, start using the technology that's already used in other sports.

The bottom line is that the manufactures of kites , (((WANT))) there
kites to have a rather Narrow wind-range ; because Why ?
that's an Easy one :
They sell MORE kites that way !!!

I have a Para-glider, that has 20M of aria on it , and that ram-air is good
for 35mph, (30 kt) of forward speed.

I have a HG, that will fly right there with a PG, (maybe i'll be a bit lower), but
it's good for 70 fricken mph !!! Even the placard on the wing states near 60mph
in turbulent air, and the wing won't break ; it has 16M of aria ...
A 16M water-kite will not come even Close to matching those speeds.

A water kite could Easily be made to handle nearly 30% more wind-range than
they do today, and the efficiency actually ((Goes UP/ Gets Better)) ; like i said :
"manufacturers WANT to sell more kites" , so they keep the wind-range kind of narrow.

Bille


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 Post subject: Re: kite fatality conclusions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:07 am 
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Yeh I don't know if I concur Billy.

The biggest range I have found in a kite was the ozone edge.

Why, because as you said the aspect and design makes it an efficient wing for an lei anyway.

But that efficiency means it hunts the edge of the window (hence good for light winds and easier to spill air in higher winds). For a lot of riding styles, such as wave riding, freestyle both hooked and unhooked this kind of wing is relatively unsuitable. Relatively that is.

It's the inefficieny of the LEI which gives you the potential for the above styles.

I suppose flysurfers chronix is a step towards what you are saying, being able to alter the trailing edge, but I haven't got on one as yet so will see when I do.

But I feel your skepticism may tinged with a slight does of Paranoia. Imagine if a company could produce a LEI wing that provided the greatest overall wind range, even a one kite quiver and yet could be suitable for such styles as mentioned. They would have a cutting edge, becuase let's face it there is a number of kites that do similiar things now.


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 Post subject: Re: kite fatality conclusions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:12 am 
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[quote="loco4viento"]I agree with edt and will add that in my opinion, sometimes the toughest and maybe most important decision is to choose "not here, not now" when you really really want to kite but recognize that conditions are adding more risk than you feel is acceptable. It's so hard to say no to kiting, and extreme conditions are so fun you can get yourself lured into situations that you might be best avoiding. It's a battle between your love and lust for kiting and your own best judgment. Inexperienced people may not have yet developed the judgment that comes with time, and can be more easily fooled into accepting risks that they aren't even aware of.




Well to put the above in context, we had a local fatality not long ago now. On that particular day I drove down the beach three times, and three times I went home. On one of those occasions I had to get someones kites down as the wind shifted from 13/14 to 40 in a matter of minutes.

Now I've been at it 14 seasons and I'm no pussy, (I was also with my bro whose tinged with madness and was viaing to get out that day the whole bloody time...his famous quote "let's charge it' over and over again, so annoying!)...

But you need to watch the charts from several sources, then sit at the actual location a watch for at least half an hour and see if the theoretical matches the reality. If you cannot put up one kite to cater for the lulls and highs, DON't go out. Easy.

and if you do...stay the fuck away from the shore. Water is much softer than land!


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 Post subject: Re: kite fatality conclusions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:08 am 
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loco4viento wrote:
most important decision is to choose "not here, not now"

edt wrote:
I think you can narrow it down to three simple elements

1) high wind
2) land
3) trained QR reflex


Us Pilots have a saying:
It's better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than in the air wishing you were on the ground.

I agree with the 3 elements too.


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 Post subject: Re: kite fatality conclusions
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:53 am 
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longwhitecloud wrote:

Australia - 10 years experience - hit a tree@landing 23-9-13



incorrect reporting

14 years experience and was hit by an invisible gust while running along the beach and knocked uncocncious and was then lofted up onto a road . He was not landing at the time


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