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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:05 pm 
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Location: L.A. & Ventura Counties, CA
coleman wrote:
RichardM wrote:

Right. There probably would be less shark attacks without kiters luring them in closer to shore and pissing them off. And don't forget about for the good of kiting's reputation in general. I'm glad you're a big enough man to recognize and admit it when you're wrong.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET



Richardm,

Like I said no credibility. Hard to believe you are siding with that family. They are so clearly being selfish, entitled, Whiney cunts.


Although you're correct that I side with the family as to their objections to unacceptable kiter conduct, you have quoted the wrong post for my reasons. Most of my reasons are listed in my posts on pages 4 and 9.

The post you quoted is tongue-in-cheek. I couldn't resist because Kamikuza's tongue felt so nice in my cheeks.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:26 pm 
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Location: Okinawa, Japan
ROFL nice try RichardM! This isn't LA. :rollgrin:
Check out his Malibu site, he's actually a lawyer practicing his superior analytical skills on this Maui case (he does actually secretly kite there..). Are your relatives from Michigan?


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:40 pm 
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mr_daruman wrote:
ROFL nice try RichardM! This isn't LA. :rollgrin:
Check out his Malibu site, he's actually a lawyer practicing his superior analytical skills on this Maui case (he does actually secretly kite there..). Are your relatives from Michigan?


So you want to get into REALLY NASTY name calling, do you ?

Well, you and all your family are POLITICIANS !


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:56 pm 
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Kamikuza wrote:
SalmonSlayer wrote:
BUT nothing about kiteboarders taking personal responsibility (as a group) for behavior that contributed to this situation.

This perspective is why I am having a hard time drumming up sympathy for this issue. We can not be our own worst enemy.

That's like seeing a video of a single guy pulling a wheelie on a public road then condemning all motorcycle riders as irresponsible assholes who deserve to get run over. :roll:

There you go again, reading only what you want to see so you can twist words. I am not sure if you are really that dense or you just enjoy getting people to react. i suspect it is the latter.

So here I go feeding the troll with a response.

In no way did I condemn all kite boarders for the actions of a few kite boarders. However it is all of our responsibility to make sure our own house is clean or these issues will happen again and again.


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:37 pm 
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Location: texas
god this argument is so absurd. for years there were no problems and now with this family there is a shit storm. i seriously doubt that there was anything different going on there around the time this family had their complaints.

cite the law if you want to but we all know how many absurd laws there are and how so many of those go completely unenforced. this family has been out for blood since the beginning. if it was me in this type of scenario with my kids i would have been able to come up with a amicable solution easily. it's called compromise and most people know how to do this so all parties are satisfied. every now and again you get complete a$$ wipes who like to cause trouble.


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:45 pm 
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Location: Florida
Most kiters want to do the right thing most of the time, in my experience. Some tactful direction and peer pressure may be needed to help push the points home at times. Some, a very few kiters, may be out of reach to reasoning due to personal wiring/bad attitude issues. We need to try to work with all kiters but we'll likely get the best results with the first, larger group. As for the second, well there is always karma (accidents seem to dog some of these guys) and possible change of heart down the road with enough peer pressure, arrests,etc..

As long as we're talking about access, I wanted to bring up an issue in SE Florida for local and visiting kiters alike who may be on the forum. A big threat to access in my area, are guys on downwinders riding inside out of bounds swim areas. In many cases these are areas within 100 yards of beaches with lifeguard stands. See lifeguard stands, stay at least that far offshore and avoid causing complaints with bathers, strollers, etc. pretty much everywhere. Riding too close, threatening to close line people, charging around kids in the water in any area, guarded or not, is childish will likely to shut us down. Being rude when we do cause complaints and non-apologetic, is a self-destructive and a bad idea. We were reminded about this, as if we needed reminding, at a lifeguard orientation to kiting we gave a few days ago. From the local forum, fksa.org:

Quote:
Sergio Bacic and I were invited by Captain Mike Brown of Ocean Rescue of Deerfield Beach to provide an orientation to the lifeguards on kiteboarding this morning. We went over similar content to that covered on 12.12.12 last year in a USLA course. Thanks to Sergio, Capt. Mike and all the guards for asking us to be present and working to keep kiting going.

NOTE- there is no launching or landing off of guarded beaches in Deerfield as is the case most beaches in SE Florida. There are a few designated launch corridors as exceptions, but only a small handful of those. We need to say AT LEAST 100 yards off of guarded beaches, even if you are on a downwinder. Please pass this on.


More about the USLA presentation at http://www.fksa.org/showthread.php?t=11674

Image


Last edited by RickI on Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:58 pm 
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RichardM...you are being very succinct of recent. :thumb:

Even Bille has expressed a sensible view. :thumb:

Whats goin on?


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:51 pm
Posts: 123
Location: Toronto, ON
Thanks to RickI for his ongoing effort to get further details on the situation; hopefully the Ocean Safety Alliance can bring some information forward that will clear things up for us. I wasn't able to find any email contact on their website, so I sent a message via Facebook, no reply yet.

Special thanks to C Johnson for making the map overlay; I was thinking about doing something similar but didn't have the tools at hand. It'd be nice if the OSA or someone local could fill it in with the current uses of the different areas, particularly where the swimming areas designated by the lifeguards are located.

Bringing some clarity as to the situation, and what's being asked for in the petition might encourage more people to put their support behind it.


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:49 pm 
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I was in Maui this summer early August and had consecutive 9m, 6m, 12, 9m (could have been on 6), and 9m days. I have kited some pretty nice venues (aruba-huts/boca, Dominican, la ventana, hood river) however I would rank Maui as one of the best places, to date that I have kited. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail in this matter and access will not be denied or limited.
Don’t want to hijack this thread; however I have had some observations with regards to the various places I have visited. When I go to a new spot, I just usually sit and watch for an hour or so. Each area is unique launch/land, obstacles, wind shadows, etc. Then I will try to find a local and ask them what the rules are for that area. I have always found that “the locals” are more than willing to share that type of information. Then only when I am comfortable that I have a grasp of the area, do I pump up. Even then, you have to get out on the water to get a feel for a place. Long story short, I don’t want to be that “kook” that endangers myself or others and worse yet give someone more fuel to limit kiting access-which is happening in spots all across the world.
Kiting is growing and will continue to grow. I don’t blame people for being “territorial” when it comes to their local spot. Yet, kiters have an innate ability to be able to smell out new venues. I would propose that in order to maintain what access people still enjoy, some type of signage indicating the do’s and don’ts be visibly displayed at each site.
Case in point, when the wind at “old guys” beach in Maui is NE there is a pretty good wind shadow from the area of the lifeguard tower. In one day I watched three kites get launched into the trees due to not setting up right and getting the kite close enough to the water. At the end of another day when I was standing talking with some locals, we observed a father/son team self-launch and almost take out several people on the beach. Not to start an international crisis here, but from the accents I could tell that these individuals as well as the kite/tree people were not locals. My first day in Maui, I was in a local kite shop quizzing one of the employees on the do’s and don’ts for kite beach. When I was leaving he said, “I wish more tourists would come in and ask these types of questions. Especially the Europeans, they think they know it all.” On another day, I had a guy from California ask me to give him a launch. I said sure. I noticed that his kite was not set-up to launch down by the water-as is the norm for this beach. I told him that he needed to move his kite down toward the water, because that is the way they do it here. He actually got kind of indignant and said, “well that is not how we do it in California.” My actually response was, “you are not in Kansas anymore Dorothy and if you want to have me launch you, you need to reorient your kite.” He reluctantly agreed and I launched him.
Kite beach in Maui is only one example of what is truly and awesome venue. I was launched and landed by kiters from Brazil, Chile, Austria, New Zealand, and Switzerland-it was a great experience and I hope to go back. I guess what I am saying is that maybe we need to do a better job of education and be respectful when we are visiting new areas. If we don’t we are going to continue to lose access.

Good winds

BC


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:54 am 
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SalmonSlayer wrote:
In no way did I condemn all kite boarders for the actions of a few kite boarders. However it is all of our responsibility to make sure our own house is clean or these issues will happen again and again.

Not in so many words, no. But you seem to be missing the point that all could be punished for the "actions" of a few. It's living in fantasy world thinking that "self-policing" is going to stop bystanders having a moan and we all know that squeaky wheels get the grease - and if you look at DickM's precious MauiNews responses, you'll see Philip and his wife account for the vast majority of the "upset public" responses...

coleman wrote:
god this argument is so absurd. for years there were no problems and now with this family there is a shit storm. i seriously doubt that there was anything different going on there around the time this family had their complaints.

There it is in a nutshell.

And that's why I have sympathy for the Maui kiters...


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