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 Post subject: Re: Industry Support for Access Issues
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:44 pm 
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tautologies wrote:
Why do you guys assume that nothing is being done by industry? Just because they do not post it on KF?

If I had a kiteboarding company I would work diligently but I would certainly not post it here. Mostly because of the out-pour of pure manure that comes as a result.


Can you point to any source contradicting the assumption ?

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET


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 Post subject: Re: Industry Support for Access Issues
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:27 pm 
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I wonder if we looked at mountain biking and access issues they had back in the 80s and 90s. Maybe they still have issues.
When we lived in Colorado i recall BIG controversy & issues between mountain bikes & hikers on same public trails & lots of talk about banning them etc
Wonder how that group is irganized to address access issues?


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 Post subject: Re: Industry Support for Access Issues
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:35 pm 
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Thanks for the info.
And thanks for the trust, but I am not the right guy for things like this.

Someone like Rick I is much more skilled to do a job like this. He already dealt with many access issues and was a help to local groups to present solutions.

But why not put it under the wing of the national associations, which are structured and with the IKA under ISAF? Wouldn't this give more power to us to deal with problems, rather than an association just for that?
The national associations will have national contacts and should be interested in keeping the shores open.


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 Post subject: Re: Industry Support for Access Issues
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:56 pm 
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Toby wrote:
...

But why not put it under the wing of the national associations, which are structured and with the IKA under ISAF? Wouldn't this give more power to us to deal with problems, rather than an association just for that?
The national associations will have national contacts and should be interested in keeping the shores open.


Google search USHPA, (United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association)
and you will SEE how a Well-Run national organization will support it's members.
It's a Non-Profit club, with current members that are elected by other
current members ; everyone has a say in how it's run, and only the Smart ones
get elected.

Search for the AMA also, (Academy of Model Aeronautics ) ; another
nationally run club with insurance , and same drive to open new flying
places as the USHGA.

I'll be flying Hang gliders and RC airplanes, in the USA, Long after kiting has bin Banned
from most all the good spots . That organization started because we HG
pilots realized that the sport would die if we didn't police ourselves, (Force-ably) !!

Now, most all the Really good flying sights are run by the USHPA,
same goes for the AMA.
So ...
comply to the rules, or go fly in Mexico where there aren't any !!

There were Too many free-nature pilots that enjoyed drinking an fighting
more than worrying about the consequences of there actions. Those guys
all shaped-up or were tossed out of the organization to find a sport
that didn't care what/why they do stupid stuff. I think the guys that got
booted from the USHPA, are all kite boarders now ?

Hate to say it but, the people that do kite boarding :
They simply aren't smart enough to realize , our sport can't survive unless we
all band together and start policing ourselves , (Force-ably) !! And that
is why i stay current with my hang gliding and RC flying cards ; the way this sport is going, i
don't think it will be around in another 10 years. :(

UNLESS the board members are Elected by other kite boarding people, NO
way would the kiters, follow there rules. Don't Like a rule ; then get elected and
Change it , or Lobby to Have it changed !!

Bille

Ps :
a guy in San Fransisco just had his card lifted for screwing up, and
the same place
a girl had it revoked for getting Stoned before flying ; nether of them
will be flying now, and our club has the power to make Sure of it !!!

It's called : "consequences for actions" ; don't like , it then Leave (.)


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 Post subject: Re: Industry Support for Access Issues
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:10 pm 
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"ut why not put it under the wing of the national associations, which are structured and with the IKA under ISAF?"

for the exact reason that both you and rick i will not make comment on the IKA reports (conflicts of interest)

For the exact same reason for IKA asking the actual riders not to comment during the olympic campaign

For the reason that we had a vote in NZ and decided we did not want a national association in nz we would use the power of the internet - not minutes meeting and involving just the people who had the time for this. we also did not want to represent individuals in the media - we would promote self responsibility in faceboook user groups forums etc, conflicts of interests coudl be openly discussed and bebated.

Because kiteboarding is not sailing - over 50% of severe injuries and deaths occur on land with a water based sport - that is because we are pilots - we use wings. Why entrust kiteboarding to an organization that has no clue about the very sport we are involved in?

Because the advice given to NZ by IKA ISAF was party incorrect

Because ISAF rep for NZ called teh national newspaper and put out an article that it was not kiteboard racing that is dangerous it is in fact freestyle kiteboarding and that no one had anything to worry about (he does not kite) - the truth the freeriding public have way more accidents that both these groups and they are the ones reading this stuff - very ambiguous!

Because ISAF country representatives are sometimes paid a full time wage to lok after windsurfing they start a shit fight to control their job looking after kitesurfing instead - they don't even kitesurf!

Because we know best about kiteboarding about our country we have no need to take advice from an organization set up by someone that had been kiting for a relatively very short time.

Because ISAF sanction events - meaning u cannot enter them representing an alternative organistion - u buy in or you are not allowed to enter

Because if you make a complaint that in the opinon on ISAF IKA bring the sport into disrepute you can be banned (eg political / anti commercial / you cannot discuss conflicts of interests - you may be banned)

I ride some awesome naish kites, they should take on board that maybe the bridles on their parks are too long and enable death loops - seen 2 at launch on these kites. The database will address this - if anything needs doing - that is teh kind of help it can be. Different countries have very different gusts/lulls/types of winds - worldwide data will be very useful.

we all knew Fone kites had a safety that was difficult to release flying through the air years before it was redesigned - , also the deathloops..

i am not saying i am the expert guru man - but these are my experiences..

no one need to agree with me but but when people try and influence others into not even discusing these issues you know there is something very wrong!


Last edited by longwhitecloud on Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Industry Support for Access Issues
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:12 pm 
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Quote:

Can you point to any source contradicting the assumption ?

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET

The burden of proof is on you. Nobody owes you anything.
You cannot just make assumptions and regard them as true until someone proves something to you.

There is a man who lives In The clouds. Now prove to me there isn't.

In terms of indications? Lots of companies around here have been involved when issues has come up before. A few years ago people came flying in from other islands to give testimoney at the legislators.


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 Post subject: Re: Industry Support for Access Issues
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:49 pm 
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Did you hear that pin drop?

Thats all the kite companies who read this forum obsessively just glaring at the screen reading this post in silence thinking..

"but how will this impact my bottom line..."


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 Post subject: Re: Industry Support for Access Issues
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:10 am 
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tautologies wrote:
Quote:

Can you point to any source contradicting the assumption ?

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET

The burden of proof is on you. Nobody owes you anything.
You cannot just make assumptions and regard them as true until someone proves something to you.

There is a man who lives In The clouds. Now prove to me there isn't.

In terms of indications? Lots of companies around here have been involved when issues has come up before. A few years ago people came flying in from other islands to give testimoney at the legislators.


First of all, please show me where I asked you to PROVE anything.

In fact, I didn't even ask for a source supporting your contention. All I asked was whether you COULD even point to one.

In case you haven't noticed, at the basis of EVERY contention about ANYTHING are assumptions.

I USED to assume that there was NOT a man who lived in the clouds because this situation would defy my understanding of the laws of physics.

However, you have now shown me several of the ways my assumption concerning cloud-man could be in error.

For example, you could have meant your example to be metaphorical, as in some DELUSIONAL character who lives in his own unrealistic understanding of reality. This character could have arrived at his residence through mental illness, drugs, WISHFUL THINKING etc. (Guess who I'm thinking of).

Of course, to be fair, I have to admit that there is a rather remote possibility that my understanding of the laws of physics could be in such error (due to incorrect basic ASSUMPTIONS) that the above character does in fact physically live in the clouds (perhaps in a congruent dimension with different physical properties), but being the unreasonable a$$hole that I am, I prefer to believe otherwise.

However, in case I'm wrong, I hope there's a cloud-woman too.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET


Last edited by RichardM on Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Industry Support for Access Issues
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:14 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2002 1:00 am
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wow.....


:P
RichardM wrote:
tautologies wrote:
Quote:

Can you point to any source contradicting the assumption ?

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET

The burden of proof is on you. Nobody owes you anything.
You cannot just make assumptions and regard them as true until someone proves something to you.

There is a man who lives In The clouds. Now prove to me there isn't.

In terms of indications? Lots of companies around here have been involved when issues has come up before. A few years ago people came flying in from other islands to give testimoney at the legislators.


First of all, please show me where I asked you to PROVE anything.

In fact, I didn't even ask for a source supporting your contention. All I asked was whether you COULD even point to one.

In case you haven't noticed, at the basis of EVERY contention about ANYTHING are assumptions.

I USED to assume that there was NOT a man who lived in the clouds because this situation would defy my understanding of the laws of physics.

However, you have now shown me several of the ways my assumption concerning cloud-man could be in error.

For example, you could have meant your example to be metaphorical, as in some DELUSIONAL character who lives in his own unrealistic understanding of reality. This character could have arrived at his residence through mental illness, drugs, WISHFUL THINKING etc. (Guess who I'm thinking of).

Of course, to be fair, I have to admit that there is a rather remote possibility that my understanding of the laws of physics could be in such error (due to incorrect basic ASSUMPTIONS) that the above character does in fact physically live in the clouds (perhaps in a congruent dimension with different physical properties), but being the unreasonable a$$hole that I am, I prefer to believe otherwise.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET


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 Post subject: Re: Industry Support for Access Issues
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:00 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:53 pm
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Elijah?


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