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 Post subject: Re: Switch Labs
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:52 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:58 pm
Posts: 635
don´t think it´s over-engineering

it´s actual some engineering

for the sound of it a better solution could had been in place from start with basically no added cost

ZigZag - nice stuff


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 Post subject: Re: Switch Labs
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:12 am 
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Posts: 86
@ naishdude: I should have clarified.

The intention is not for us (the end user) to modify our valves. I was hoping that a kite manufacturer would see the light and offer a "controlled deflate" valve on their future models. Unlike the "improvements" made to some kite bars, this type of valve actually offers increased functionality at little or no additional cost or complexity.

The presence of the slots does not affect the sealing in any way. If you haven't tightened this type of valve before pumping your kite, you will have a fast leak instead of a slow leak. Maybe that's an advantage, too? You will discover the problem before you get onto the water..... :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: Switch Labs
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 1749
Location: Miami @ 6" Flat Butter!
Bill, I have a question since everybody is talking about quality, safety and bars etc...
What's your impression from your perspective to "Switch" to the ZEEKO UDS ULTIMATE BAR like,
since people here on KF are looking for a benefit of lower price Bar Technology,
which far outweigh the disadvantages with its simplicity, just sayin' :?:

Thanks,

DrLW


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 Post subject: Re: Switch Labs
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:57 pm 
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DrLightWind wrote:
Bill, I have a question since everybody is talking about quality, safety and bars etc...
What's your impression from your perspective to "Switch" to the ZEEKO UDS ULTIMATE BAR like,
since people here on KF are looking for a benefit of lower price Bar Technology,
which far outweigh the disadvantages with its simplicity, just sayin' :?:

Thanks,

DrLW


Thing is....... The Switch bar is cheaper than the Zeeko UDS.

I think the Zeeko bar looks like a better design and maybe cheaper to maintain.
I would have bought the Zeeko bar if it was cheaper instead of the Switch bar (and they would actually sell me one without buying a kite with the bar)..


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 Post subject: Re: Switch Labs
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:18 pm 
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Location: Miami @ 6" Flat Butter!
ronnie wrote:
Thing is....... The Switch bar is cheaper than the Zeeko UDS.

I think the Zeeko bar looks like a better design and maybe cheaper to maintain.
I would have bought the Zeeko bar if it was cheaper instead of the Switch bar (and they would actually sell me one without buying a kite with the bar)..
I got mine without the kite for $349,
which is only a little more VS $275 Switch bar, Here:

http://kiteforce.ca/index.php?id_produc ... &id_lang=1

DrLW


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 Post subject: Re: Switch Labs
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:34 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:56 pm
Posts: 416
Location: ontario
@ ZigZag… the LF Envy for 2014 has a controlled deflate.


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 Post subject: Re: Switch Labs
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:27 pm 
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Posts: 523
Location: USA
@ ZigZag - Controlled deflate is definitely a good feature. I like your highly thought out and detailed posts. Thanks! I have also cut grooves similar as you show and found it convenient but not all that necessary. My personal technique is to partially unscrew it until the pressure is reasonably escaping and go on to other tasks while the kite deflates. If I am in a hurry, I hold the valve body after unscrewing and control the release manually. :thumb:

@ longwhitecloud - Certainly possible now with the Controller2. Every kiter should be fully aware of the safety systems and options available. :thumb:

@ naishdude - same technique! :thumb:

@ Tiago1973 and ZigZag - The valve is one of the very few components we source from an outside supplier. We are working on a completely new proprietary valve system for future release. :thumb:

@ DrLightWind and Ronnie - Looks clean but I cannot comment as I have no personal experience with it. $349 vs $275 is 27% more.


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 Post subject: Re: Switch Labs
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:29 pm 
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Posts: 317
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Hansen Aerosports wrote:
Future Switch Labs projects - real world numbers for bar pressure, sheeting/steering loads, real and apparent wind velocity, total force, lift vs drag, VMG, turning speed, etc.
Exciting isn't it? :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:


I think this forum would LOVE to see these numbers, tired of the stupid spider/pie graphs that show made up performance numbers that say the kite is awesome at everything.

This has been on my to do list for some time, the instrumentation isn't that far out there.....the RC airplane guys have some super small light weight telemetry stuff that would get this job done. (G force, GPS, relative windspeed)

I assume you would benchmark your competitors and where possible make your kites better in the target areas......of course YOU couldn't post your numbers as better than than the competition without being accused of being in a conflict of interest, but once you had the instrumentation sorted out. you could certainly invite a kite magazine down to do the testing....if you're confident in your performance, you could sell a lot more kites....and that magazine would sell a lot of copies....

Even still a comparison within switch kites themselves would be pretty awesome. to let purchasers know what they're getting.


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 Post subject: Re: Switch Labs
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:14 am
Posts: 613
Location: outer space
ZigZag wrote:
@ naishdude: I should have clarified.

The intention is not for us (the end user) to modify our valves. I was hoping that a kite manufacturer would see the light and offer a "controlled deflate" valve on their future models. Unlike the "improvements" made to some kite bars, this type of valve actually offers increased functionality at little or no additional cost or complexity.

The presence of the slots does not affect the sealing in any way. If you haven't tightened this type of valve before pumping your kite, you will have a fast leak instead of a slow leak. Maybe that's an advantage, too? You will discover the problem before you get onto the water..... :oops:


I like the way you approach issues...thanks for your reaction, the drawings and idea is good...and who knows someone might use it in the future...
Btw are you still flying your method v1?
Kind regards
Dude :cool2:


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 Post subject: Re: Switch Labs
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:37 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:04 pm
Posts: 523
Location: USA
Hi Johnny:
Especially interesting to know: real bar pressure, sheeted-out vs. sheeted-in kite force (extent of 'de-power,') true wind as measured at the kite (valid wind range numbers.)

While we are working on that, here is a leash test: https://vimeo.com/78877817 :thumb:

Johnny Rotten wrote:
I think this forum would LOVE to see these numbers, tired of the stupid spider/pie graphs that show made up performance numbers that say the kite is awesome at everything.


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