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Downlooping w/out chaod or stopper ball

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Westozzy
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Re: Downlooping w/out chaod or stopper ball

Postby Westozzy » Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:44 am

Safer depower length?

Was it someone on here that said it should be called a trim, not a depower rope.

You do not need the length of throw I see on some bars, it is unnecessary as after a certain throw the kites angle of attack has altered as much as it can re the bridal / pulley set up anyhow.

Then use your edging skills to fly a canopy (that will be behaving better is it is only trimmed, not depowered as such) to the edge of the window.

Bottom line shorten your TRIM line that is within reach. The rest is wasted anyway.

I do know why you asked this question though, it shits me to tears when I unspin a bar demoing a kite and I have to 'climb' up the bloody centre line to grap the bar again...stupid.

Shorten your TRIM line, set your back steering lines accordingly and learn to edge to kill power, rather than rely on a DEPOWER rope which in my mind is a dangerous description.

'Safer depower' length is an oxymoron and I am sure most experienced riders who learnt on the early kites would agree. A canopy behaves like crap 'depowered' in heavy conditions.

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Re: Downlooping w/out chaod or stopper ball

Postby L0KI » Sat Nov 16, 2013 5:47 am

Oldnbroken wrote:Keep bar throw at a reach-able length.
Keep bar throw at a reach-able length.

knotwindy
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Re: Downlooping w/out chaod or stopper ball

Postby knotwindy » Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:05 am

not sure why you think it is safer without a stopper but if that is what you want there are 2 other choices

1 don't just spin the bar and let go, keep one hand on it as you spin it and switch hands part way around

2 leave your front hand where it normally is on the bar and reach across with your back hand under your front hand, grab the bar at the front end underhanded, pull with the new front hand and let go with the old front hand. as the kite down loops and come through the bar will be the right way around so just switch hands

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sotheysay
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Re: Downlooping w/out chaod or stopper ball

Postby sotheysay » Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:53 am

You know you're thinking too much when you are asking this question.

romkite
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Re: Downlooping w/out chaod or stopper ball

Postby romkite » Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:30 pm

Westozzy wrote:'Safer depower' length is an oxymoron and I am sure most experienced riders who learnt on the early kites would agree. A canopy behaves like crap 'depowered' in heavy conditions.


Ian Alldredge & Patrick Rebstock fro example are using an extremely long depower throw. Could be related to the fact that they don't have a trim on their bars... But some guys have both trim & long depower throw.

Though I myself use the shortest possible depower throw, it seems some of the best riders choose another approach. There is no perfect setup once you are experienced, it's a game of give and take and you shall choose what suits you best.

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NYKiter
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Re: Downlooping w/out chaod or stopper ball

Postby NYKiter » Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:30 pm

knotwindy wrote:not sure why you think it is safer without a stopper but if that is what you want there are 2 other choices

1 don't just spin the bar and let go, keep one hand on it as you spin it and switch hands part way around

2 leave your front hand where it normally is on the bar and reach across with your back hand under your front hand, grab the bar at the front end underhanded, pull with the new front hand and let go with the old front hand. as the kite down loops and come through the bar will be the right way around so just switch hands



Thats what I thought, thanks! :jump:

William Munney
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Re: Downlooping w/out chaod or stopper ball

Postby William Munney » Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:42 pm

Westozzy wrote:Safer depower length?

Was it someone on here that said it should be called a trim, not a depower rope.

You do not need the length of throw I see on some bars, it is unnecessary as after a certain throw the kites angle of attack has altered as much as it can re the bridal / pulley set up anyhow.


snip.


That was the case with the kites I used to fly, with full "depower" the back steering lines were so slack the kite was flying on the front lines only. The only effect of pulling the depower strap all the way was to make it impossible to steer effectively. But Rebels behave great with the rope pulled in all the way and the bar pushed out.

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NYKiter
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Re: Downlooping w/out chaod or stopper ball

Postby NYKiter » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:50 pm

My preference is to allow the kite as MUCH depower as possible in the unlikely event I cannot hit the quick release for whatever reason (I do practice that quite a bit). I still like knowing that the bar will travel 3 feet down the line in a major crash....I would imagine that some day the bar will destroy the pulley or even fold causing an even bigger problem (but the slingy pulley is pretty robust), but its the risk I take....just a calculated risk, one of the downsides is the convenience of downlooping easily. Thanks for the input. :bye:

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Re: Downlooping w/out chaod or stopper ball

Postby L0KI » Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:36 pm

If you have a "major crash" and drop the bar, and you have it set up to be out of reach, how do you get the bar back in hand? ...like say in 35 knots wind when pulling on the depower rope will be difficult to get the bar back into reach.
Either set the bar up to be reach-able or use a stopper ball that will help keep it reach-able.
You don't need a stopper ball if your bar throw is set correctly.
You do need one if the bar system is designed to be longer than arms reach.
This is all a consideration that has to do with what makes sense before you even talk about downloop and spinning the bar.
If the bar is set up right either way, then letting is go and spinning it is not a problem.

knotwindy
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Re: Downlooping w/out chaod or stopper ball

Postby knotwindy » Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:37 pm

just so you know, if you are flying a slingy kite, that is not how it works.
after the initial 2 foot or so of depower from letting the bar go, there is no advantage in the bar going further until it gets about a full kite length away, maybe 12 feet or so. There is no extra depower inbetween as the bridles are not set up for it. Slingy's go to a single front line, not a "mini-5th", so all you are getting is a false sense of security and the bar farther way if you really need to punch out.
not optimum….


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