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 Post subject: Re: How much do kites cost to manufacture?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:24 am 
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Tiago1973 wrote:
...in automotive (components) u can use a factor of 10x and won´t be too far away from reality...

I know of certain hardware that everyone on this forum is utilizing right now that sells for 20 times manufacturing cost.


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 Post subject: Re: How much do kites cost to manufacture?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:50 am 
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JS wrote:
Tiago1973 wrote:
...in automotive (components) u can use a factor of 10x and won´t be too far away from reality...

I know of certain hardware that everyone on this forum is utilizing right now that sells for 20 times manufacturing cost.

Penis pump? I'm telling you man that's not mine.


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 Post subject: Re: How much do kites cost to manufacture?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:01 pm 
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Now that you got some info from Bill Hansen about how much it cost to manufacture a kite, add also all these expenses to the bill of manufacturing a kite:

-Screen Print mold cost (for graphics).
-Panel lay out cost of the canopy. The more complicated they get the more they cost.
-Kite Designer cost (some of them get paid on a salary and some on a plan).
-Graphic Designer cost.
-Web Designer cost.
-Time the factory workers spend on putting the kite together. (The more complex the more expensive it is).
-Prototype cost (and these cost more then your production cost).
-Shipping cost.
-etc, etc, etc........


Then on top of that you need to add how much it cost you to run the company such as your salary, your employees salary, travel expenses, your team riders salary, the advertisement you do, the office expenses and the list goes on.....
So as you can see there is a lot of things that goes into making a kite. But if you don't add all these expenses into the equation, then to manufacture a 12 meter kite for example complete with bag and pump will be around $385 to $468 depending the shape, the quantity, the materials and how you want the kite to be put together. Plus some factories might charge you a little less or a little more.
Once again I rather order small quantities every month then larger quantity so the factory can pay attention on the quality. But again this costs us more.
If you order around 1000 kites a month, the factory will drop the cost to around $385 for a 12 meter kite but again on top of that you need to add all your expenses that I mentioned above. So in few words a 12 meter EPIC kite comes out to be around +- $595 for kite only with out the bar and lines, and that is our cost for orders of 380 kites a month.

Now good luck in making your own kites. :thumb:


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Last edited by Dimitri M on Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: How much do kites cost to manufacture?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:45 pm 
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I think that 'how much does it cost to manufacture a kite' is not the right title for this thread, ..it should be 'how much does it cost to develop a kite and then how much should that kite cost' ....or, ..'are the kite brands getting rich from us'.

The answer to the first is being addressed in all the posts before this, and I think both Bill and Dimitri trying to explain that there is more than just the production cost of a kite involved in its retail price should not even be necessary (but is appreciated none the less).

As someone mentioned already, it is not that difficult to contact the Chinese factories who produce kites for the major brands and have them make a kite for you, ...I have helped someone do it recently, ...I saw the kite (it cost $350 for a 12m with a bar) ...it flew, ..it resembled a 2011/2012 kite from a number of manufacturers, the bar was, ...Chinese (for want of a better adjective) ....and 6 months later it is not broken. I would not have been able to sell it for $350 on ebay though, not in a lifetime.

So ask yourself this, ..how much work does it take to make a kite that costs 300-500$ to produce, hold a quality and value that it can be sold on the market for 1400$, ..and then how much to have the infrastructure in place to deal with logistics, customers etc.

Some of the companies who are selling direct, or through shops are doing it very well, others less so, ...no name calling here, but we have all had experiences with items in online shops not being available for months or ever, and faulty bars, valves etc being a nightmare to remedy with the manufacturer.

What comes out of this is 'are the kite brands getting rich from us?' ..no, but if they work hard, offer not just quality products but quality service they stand a chance ...and after all the work involved (as with building up any business) ..they will deserve it.

Dimitri says "good luck making your own kites" ....I say "good luck building a successful kite company".


*the author of this post is massively biased and opinionated, ...he has made a career from helping small business become big business across many industries and believes in open and transparent business practices and customer service. ....he also rides Switch Kites and thinks what the company stands for and is doing is awesome.


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 Post subject: Re: How much do kites cost to manufacture?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:40 pm 
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yeeaaah... it is quite clear to me that every brand that has production costs more than 200$ per kite is buying too much services outside (e.g. kite design).

some brands stick to their old designs "forever" and stoically avoiding buying new ideas from outside (like slingshot) risking stagnating, but keeping costs low.

may be Epic should design its kites with their own resources, not to buy design from Momi, same for Hell kites and Mat...


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 Post subject: Re: How much do kites cost to manufacture?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:39 pm 
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Thanks for the additional information Dmitri. I am sure it takes alot of work and effort to get a working kite design and can also be a bit risky - I have watched the videos of Momi trying to set you on fire :wink:

It would certainly be alot easier to just "copy" an existing design, I am not sure what a company could do if a factory in China started pumping out very close copies of a popular kite like the Bandit or the RPM.


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 Post subject: Re: How much do kites cost to manufacture?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:00 pm 
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UKSurf wrote:
Thanks for the additional information Dmitri. I am sure it takes alot of work and effort to get a working kite design and can also be a bit risky - I have watched the videos of Momi trying to set you on fire :wink:

It would certainly be alot easier to just "copy" an existing design, I am not sure what a company could do if a factory in China started pumping out very close copies of a popular kite like the Bandit or the RPM.

They copy stuff all the time and dont bother what other folk think has anyone ever seen the copy of the BMW X5 they sell in China its looks identical and they say its not a copy :D .
Got to take my hat of to Dimitri for telling us what it costs , i think that over the past few years kites have not changed that much just a few tweeks here and there so the r@d costs should not be as much as they were and i would be more than happy to pay less for a one colour kite with no fancy graphics, as long as it had big flow inflation valves (Mr Dimitri :D ) .The cost of the control bars are getting expensive if you buy Cabrinha kites there bars must be the most expensive out there .


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 Post subject: Re: How much do kites cost to manufacture?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:22 am 
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Location: OUTER BANKS (NC) USA. Owner of EPICKITES
Quote:
Poster: eree
..may be Epic should design its kites with their own resources, not to buy design from Momi..

Well Momi and I go a long way. He is also a very good friend of mine who knows what I am looking in the performance of a kite. Plus Momi is part of the EPIC family. I tell him what I want a kite to do and he comes up with a design. But again you have to see how many prototypes we go through in order to bring you the final product. I have to test it and test it until I am happy with the kite. Then I send it to my dealers and team riders to see what they think. So its a lot of work and I am very proud to put on my kites "Designed by Momi".
Concerning my own resources…. I use what the factory has to offer concerning materials and also do some shopping around and have it sent to the factory.
So in few words EPICKITES= Dimitri (Guinea pig/Test dummy) + Momi (Kite designer) + Helen (Taking care of the orders & office) + Jeroen (Graphic designer) + Dealers & Team riders. And this is the reason why the company is doing so well. Plus we don't pay any of our Team Riders, every body pays for their EPIC gear.

:thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: How much do kites cost to manufacture?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:43 pm 
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edt wrote:
KiteCulture wrote:
I can't speak about board, but from what I can tell, there is actually less mark-up than kites. Not sure why the boards cost so much compared to wake boards.


Kiteboards weigh about half as much as wakeboards, a kiteboard will weigh about 5 pounds (2 kilos) a wakeboard 11 pounds (5 kilos). Wakeboards will be made of foam, wood core and PVC, but you can't do that with a kiteboard, the PVC is too heavy so they are made of wood core, epoxy and carbon. The Ronix code 22 is made of carbon, glass, wood, and lists for $600 without the bindings that is still $300 less than a kiteboard of comparable construction. There are a few entry level kiteboards made of PVC and wood, they are pretty cheap and awfully heavy retail for $350 or so.

I would say 50% of the additional cost is economies of scale the other 50% is having to use more expensive materials.


handle...
G10 fins...
extra inserts...
3D deck shaping...
VOLUME...

These make the difference.


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 Post subject: Re: How much do kites cost to manufacture?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:44 pm 
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edt wrote:
eree wrote:
why else there would be so much kite brands?


oh that's an easy one to answer, the same reason there are so many restaurants. Everyone who loves to cook thinks "Dream job open a restaurant" they get to cook and make money on it! But what they don't know is that most restaurants fail. Opening a restaurant is like burning money except it smells better. Kiteboarding is the same, everyone thinks, "What if I just kited all day and I got paid because I make kites. Dream job!"

But people open restaurants all the time and they even get people to back them and finance it.

The profit margin can be razor thin people still want the job because it's a dream job.

Now you want to talk jobs with large profit margins let's talk about cleaning out septic tanks. Nobody wants to do that job, so it will have a huge profit margin.

People would want to make kites even if they barely broke even. If kite manufacturing was so profitable then windwing jn latitude genetrix freak dog kainam wipika wind griffin monkey windtech balance hana crew would still be making kites.

$200 for a kite, if they are that cheap to make why don't you start up a new company and then sell them for $400 make a ton of money you would become the best selling kite company overnight.

The only people who know for sure are the industry insiders and they are not talking.


TRUTH

I love this thread!!!


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