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 Post subject: Re: Are Switch kites getting any better?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:44 pm 
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Unbiased reviews do not exist.

I remember trying a Bandit Dos for the first time from a friend, which he (and others) absolutely loved and for me it was (and is) by far the most shitty kite I have ever touched.
And a couple weeks ago I exchanged kites with a friend in rather low wind conditions. He took my Combat 11m² and I took his Vegas 12m² and we both could not stay upwind anymore.

The best you can hope to gain from a review is to find out whether a kite fits your riding style.
I.e. is it high bar pressure or low or fast turning or slow.

But even that is hard, because you do not know what people compare to.


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 Post subject: Re: Are Switch kites getting any better?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:21 pm 
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Nectar wrote:
Onshore, down the line works great on the methods for me.

I haven't tried methods and my comment is general. There are no waves kites at the moment that are advertised to sit back in the window. I own Airush Vapor III and Ocean Rodeo Cypher both were discontinued so I am looking. In your video you almost never go straight down the wave so you don't get the problem I am talking about.


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 Post subject: Re: Are Switch kites getting any better?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:27 pm 
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I'm with Jan. For me, I have to grow into kites so that my riding adapts to the conditions and kite. Each one is just a little different, even size to size. I really don't like to try other kites that much because I am dialled on the ones I ride. Even kites in the same genre feel different and require me to tweak how I ride to get the most out of them. Staying upwind is a good example. I'm not really sure how much you can adapt to a kite during a quick test, other than to determine how it feels. I'm sure there are cases where you get on one and everything lines up. I've felt this actually with the Element2. But for me to get the most out of kites, I need to spend a lot of time on them to get my feeling dialled in.


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 Post subject: Re: Are Switch kites getting any better?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:02 am 
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Don´t want to sound harsh but did you ever do a competitive sport at a high level?

The idea that the average joe, no matter how good he is, could be close to the level of perception and feeling, ie - ability to identify on how small changes affect flying characteristics, of a top athlete in his prime is ludicrous. In kite or any other sport.


I've been flying kites since the two line foil days and I know quite a few in the same boat. We have all been through all the changes in kite design etc over the years. Sure when dialling in small bridal and canopy changes in the design and testing phase I would agree 'accomplished riders' would be very useful to identify these 'small' changes. But any experienced kiter with a good combination of water time and different kites flown across the spectrum from race to wave can quickly work out the difference in flying characteristics between two lets say so called freeride kites. Or two C kites, or two wave kites.

If you for one second think that the only useful feedback is from pro riders then I honestly feel sorry for you and I think your point of view is quite dangerous for the average joe. Input from all areas is where you develop a true picture.


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 Post subject: Re: Are Switch kites getting any better?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:07 pm 
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Tiago1973 wrote:
The idea that the average joe, no matter how good he is, could be close to the level of perception and feeling, ie - ability to identify on how small changes affect flying characteristics, of a top athlete in his prime is ludicrous. In kite or any other sport.


Just because you can do some really good spins and acrobatics does not make you an intuitive kite flying expert. Sure there'll be pro's that are very switched on and also some guys that quite frankly are stupid but can do good tricks.

The same goes for average go, Some guys will be switched on to even the smallest change and others like a blund instrument will forge on with no idea.

I saw this first hand when I races downhill mountainbiking, A good portion of the really good guys are fearless halfwits with no idea. but man cant they smash down a hill fast!!,,,


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 Post subject: Re: Are Switch kites getting any better?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:13 pm 
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plummet wrote:
Just because you can do some really good spins and acrobatics does not make you an intuitive kite flying expert. Sure there'll be pro's that are very switched on and also some guys that quite frankly are stupid but can do good tricks.

The same goes for average go, Some guys will be switched on to even the smallest change and others like a blund instrument will forge on with no idea.


I noticed the same.
I met nearly pro level riders who didnt know anything about their gear.

But I think that is really pretty rare.

In average, someone who flies kites 300 days a year will have a much finer feel for it, than someone who has 20 days on the water a year.


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 Post subject: Re: Are Switch kites getting any better?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:46 pm 
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You don't have to know WHY something works, to know THAT it works.

That is how most things are tought to people anyways...

That's a source of many misassumptions too... to any sport or activity.


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 Post subject: Re: Are Switch kites getting any better?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:48 pm 
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Westozzy wrote:
If you for one second think that the only useful feedback is from pro riders then I honestly feel sorry for you and I think your point of view is quite dangerous for the average joe. Input from all areas is where you develop a true picture.

didn´t want to imply that, just had to keep my post short enough

on that particular I am with plummet and see, for the most part, team riders feedback on a public forum more as marketing material than anything else

was mainly addressing my opinion of their importance in R&D

coincidently don´t remember reading a bad review on how the Combat V1 behave in the air

_______
as a side note think it was a bad move for Switch to drop the battens - that very specific detail could had been used to build a reputation

now they are with another 5 line C-kite, as most of the others


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 Post subject: Re: Are Switch kites getting any better?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:28 pm 
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Tiago1973 wrote:
Westozzy wrote:


coincidently don´t remember reading a bad review on how the Combat V1 behave in the air

_______
as a side note think it was a bad move for Switch to drop the battens - that very specific detail could had been used to build a reputation

now they are with another 5 line C-kite, as most of the others


That is called progression, if you get a lot of bad reactions that battens go through the cloth, and damage the kite, no matter which brand you are, you do not wanna read those kind of things, and you try to solve that problem, keeping the customer satified and thus avoiding bad advertisement for your product.
So what they did is what all the other brands did, get rid of the battens.....so do not complain about the fact they did the same all others did hahaha :wink:

Still there were more people not having these problems..which ment they did not crash their kites that hard...

Anyways back to the thread....have Switch kites become better....YES on all points and all the way..
They cannot sit still and watch how others might take back a part of their share...they have to defend themselves constantly, it is, go with the flow or drown...
But you do not have to take me seriously as l consider myself as a PR rider... :roll:

Cheers, Dude :cool2:


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 Post subject: Re: Are Switch kites getting any better?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:10 pm 
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Even though the battens were 3-piece and removable, users (including Marc) wanted a smaller/quicker pack down. In general terms, Combat lies between Fuel and Torch. :thumb:


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