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 Post subject: Re: Sleeveless & Knotless line loops
PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:31 pm 
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BWD wrote:
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BWD I think you need a new fid,
and sure enough, my gibson needs a new G string. :lol:
no 10? ok gues not, I guess it's the 8 strand i meant. Perhaps it depends on how it's made. I have some ozone lines that have only 8 strands, I think, and are square in cross section, with the strands tucking in at a higher angle than line with a rounder cross section. Compressing the line only expands it to about twice its diameter, leaving barely any space inside. Perhaps with the ultimate fid this could be exploited. I've had no luck with a guitar string.
If you forgo the brummel, you really can easily get the length within a mm or two.


I have some ozone lines from 2010 rear and center lines both easily spliced. They were 12 strand lines. I have spliced lines of just about every year and brand from my 2004 cabrinha lines to 2013 liquid force with my bicycle spoke works every time. 8 strand line will have 2 of the strands together, and it's actually a 4 strand weave with 2 strands acting as one, but I have never seen 8 strand used for kite line only hemp rope.

g string fid is a finicky fid I don't like it because it gets stuck too easy


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 Post subject: Re: Sleeveless & Knotless line loops
PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:43 pm 
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hmmm.
Check this out:
Attachment:
lines lines.jpg
lines lines.jpg [ 2.66 MIB | Viewed 717 times ]

As you can see, varying in fiber, braid and orientation.
Some expand better than others.
Both the ozone and slingshot larger-diameter, more-strands easily expand for splice.
The old ozone doesn't, possibly because of the angle @ which the braid is laid.
The newer ozone back line looks good for splicing, though I haven't had to do one yet.
It's all pushin' rope anyway, to get that tunnel started.... ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Sleeveless & Knotless line loops
PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:20 pm 
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BWD those are all 12 strand and I have spliced all of them very easily. The strands are thinner or thicker have more or less fibers in them and the fibers themselves might have structure but they are all definitely 12 strand. I'm not saying you have to get a new fid, just saying maybe some day you upgrade from the g string.


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 Post subject: Re: Sleeveless & Knotless line loops
PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:26 pm 
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a little off topic, but do you need to connect line extensions to the bars lines with a sleeved loop?

I have airush bars and there are a number of line lengths options. All the connections are looped connections but don't seem to have any sleeving.

The reason I ask is I bought some line extensions but one side of the extensions are not sleeved. Not sure if I have to connect the lines to the pigtails, or if I can remove the pigtails and attached the none sleeved extensions to the none sleeved kite bar line itself.


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 Post subject: Re: Sleeveless & Knotless line loops
PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:39 pm 
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Update to the thread drift: It's actually not all 12 strand hollow braid.
There's more than one way to braid a line, and the more strands, the more ways...

To make a short story long, I'd fiddled with the line in question enough before to be pretty sure it wasn't the same braid as the others. I was almost convinced otherwise earlier. But no.
And I thought it was 8 strands, even thought I know that doesn't make the usual round hollow braid. And the line had a "square" shape.
Which does go along with 4 (or 8 ) strands
So recalling old laboratory days, I embedded it in wax, sectioned it, and looked at it out under magnification. This is the best I could do with no microscope, check it:
Attachment:
P1010942.JPG
P1010942.JPG [ 4.64 MIB | Viewed 556 times ]

I could see clearly from the cut face of the wax embedded line that there were in fact 8 strands, appearing at the face of the cut as 2 parallel groups of three strands at 9 and 3 o'clock in the photo, with two single strands in the outside valleys, 12 and 6 o'clock. Presumably the next section would have the orientations reversed, with single strands appearing at 9 and 3, the new single strands having emerged from the "equatorial" groups of three, with the old ones diving in to make up the number in the new "polar" groups of three.
So here we see an alternative 8 strand braid, neither completely solid nor completely hollow.
What's interesting is that the lines, if the sticker on the winder is to be believed, are rated 360dan, versus the more typical 300 on lines of this diameter. I wonder if this has more to do with the fiber, its processing, or the braid. Interesting.
But it's not interesting to try to splice them!
Want to know more?
Write someone at Cousin Trestec...


Last edited by BWD on Sat Dec 21, 2013 6:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Sleeveless & Knotless line loops
PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:43 pm 
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nicor wrote:
a little off topic, but do you need to connect line extensions to the bars lines with a sleeved loop?

I have airush bars and there are a number of line lengths options. All the connections are looped connections but don't seem to have any sleeving.

The reason I ask is I bought some line extensions but one side of the extensions are not sleeved. Not sure if I have to connect the lines to the pigtails, or if I can remove the pigtails and attached the none sleeved extensions to the none sleeved kite bar line itself.


you can attach them straight up. Some say you need pigtails but I have run lines straight up to the bridle for years, and it seems to wear the same as with a pigtail.

I generally do not suggest doing it this way, however, because it is such a pain to undo the lark's head. Worth a few dollars to pigtail them to me saves a lot of time putting on and off the lines.


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 Post subject: Re: Sleeveless & Knotless line loops
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:10 pm 
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Ok, here is my refurbed North 5thy (until my new set comes in from across the pond...).

Brand new outside lines from a Gastra bar and the rest are all good Slingy lines.
I could not find any heavy spectra(?) for the strong center so I harvested some Slingy REV P-lines and put them together. I really liked using the Brummel Splice...it was dead on every time. You can also see the loops in the strong center. I used the fid and pulled them in and then wove through with nylon upholstery thread and covered the threads with a little film of Type A Tearaid. Took me all day. Pretty stoked. Check the little arrow and N I painted black on the release....limited edition.....Sunday I will tuner all out...hope it all matches....thanks for all the input from the flight line vets on this forum!!
:jap:

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Sleeveless & Knotless line loops
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:52 pm 
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On the subject of splicing, do you need a stainless selma fid to do a bury splice in a depower line? Tried it with Samson aluminum fids and the diameter was too big to pull it through the recommended bury length.


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 Post subject: Re: Sleeveless & Knotless line loops
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:24 am 
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Not really. I've used chopsticks, a wire coat hanger, a ballpoint pen ink cartridge, etc. Often with a little electrical tape to assist. Once made a hook-fid from a hanger, also had a bicycle spoke that served well before i lost it.
Helps to taper the end well before pulling it through.


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 Post subject: Re: Sleeveless & Knotless line loops
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 4:05 am 
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I made a pull fid out of a big needle and a ring. Perfect for splicing leader line-thickness amsteel.

Brummel is good, but doesn't sit as nicely as an eye splice IMO as where the line is buried is wide at right angles to the loop. I prefer to stitch...


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