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 Post subject: Re: New kites and liability insurance.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 12:14 am 
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Laughingman wrote:

Caution in this case is far from a snowflake... What if you bought a brand new car and the first time you turned it on it takes off and smashes into a crowd of people killing several of them and then you as you come to rest against the side of a building....? Who's fault is that... Should the driver have the vehicle checked out before hand? As a consumer we have to trust that vendors are in fact selling us goods that perform as we expect them too as experienced kiters would.


Agreed except instead as we expect I would say as is reasonable to expect...since there are some weird expectations out there. LOL

Obviously when there is a manufacturing error that is disguised it makes for an interesting case, but it is unmanageable to leave all blame on the pilot in this case.

I generally test my kites, but flying them for 30 mins on a wide beach? No one in Hawaii could kite.


Last edited by tautologies on Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New kites and liability insurance.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 12:51 am 
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tautologies wrote:
Billie you wrong on this. The accident was caused by an error on the manufacturing of the kite. Are saying that you as a User should have to test everything you buy because that is the result of your argument. At what level of testing is it reasonable to say it is a factory error?

I bet the no answering of emails is on lawyer advice.


I firmly believe that You sir, are one of the more open-minded people
on this forum ; your posts are typically Well thought out and and intelligible !!

SO it feels kinda weird, going against Ya on this one .

I'm saying that the manufacturer absolutely screwed up on this kite
BUT
no person that has bin around or a while , (especially a guy that kites the NW)
with an 8M in good wind, should Expect his kite to fly perfect out of the Box.

He even admits that the kite didn't Feel right ; but went against his intuition
just anyway !! :
topis author from nwkite wrote:

...
From the beginning, it seemed to me that there was something wrong with the kite. Turns out, there was.
...


I've personally NEVER had a new kite fly perfect from the start ; they Always needed
a bit of tuning. Now the stronger the wind, the More a badly tuned kite is affected , and
this Was an 8M after-all !

And Last, i wanna know WHY he got launched , while doing a self-launch ?
What the Hell kind of technique did he use , that he didn't see it coming ??
I self-launch at Mohave, at-least 80% of the time, and that's some Gnarly sh*t
down there ; i Know my kite is "GOOD" ((BEFORE)) i ever Hook-In to the Damn thing .
I actually fly it Up a span or two, then back down to reassure myself that things
are OK ;
and anyone that Doesn't do an approach , with the same level of pessimism, is simply
being Foolish !!

I'm hoping i Didn't come-off too Rude ? But if it saves someone some medical bills
then it was Worth it.

Bille


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 Post subject: Re: New kites and liability insurance.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:45 am 
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Laughingman wrote:
Dr Makani wrote:
No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible.
- Voltaire
peace


Caution in this case is far from a snowflake... What if you bought a brand new car and the first time you turned it on it takes off and smashes into a crowd of people killing several of them and then you as you come to rest against the side of a building....? Who's fault is that... Should the driver have the vehicle checked out before hand? As a consumer we have to trust that vendors are in fact selling us goods that perform as we expect them too as experienced kiters would.


Except driving is not considered an extreme sport. Whether or not kiting is really an extreme sport at this point, I suspect the burden of proof would be higher due to the nature of the sport, just as it would be if the car you bought was built for racing and malfunctioned. But this is sheer speculation on my part. Has any kite manufacturer been successfully sued for a manufacturing or design defect that resulted in an injury?


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 Post subject: Re: New kites and liability insurance.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:56 am 
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Location: Southwestern Ontario
William Munney wrote:
Laughingman wrote:
Dr Makani wrote:
No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible.
- Voltaire
peace


Caution in this case is far from a snowflake... What if you bought a brand new car and the first time you turned it on it takes off and smashes into a crowd of people killing several of them and then you as you come to rest against the side of a building....? Who's fault is that... Should the driver have the vehicle checked out before hand? As a consumer we have to trust that vendors are in fact selling us goods that perform as we expect them too as experienced kiters would.


Except driving is not considered an extreme sport. Whether or not kiting is really an extreme sport at this point, I suspect the burden of proof would be higher due to the nature of the sport, just as it would be if the car you bought was built for racing and malfunctioned. But this is sheer speculation on my part. Has any kite manufacturer been successfully sued for a manufacturing or design defect that resulted in an injury?


I would disagree and my reasoning is anyone can buy a kite and fly it to their hearts content... But you cannot buy and drive a car without first being tested and licensed allowing you to drive. Therefore driving is much more extreme then kiting.


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 Post subject: Re: New kites and liability insurance.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:38 pm 
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Total BS!
A car is at least fired up once before it leaves the plant by trained peaple.
after that it is most likely driven onto a truck or in and out of a lot or showroom.

A kite is never even inflated before selling it.
The 12 year old kid stitching the kite together doesent even know what it is hes making.


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 Post subject: Re: New kites and liability insurance.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 4:29 pm 
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rift wrote:
There is an interesting post on nwkite about the dangers of launching a brand new kite in sketchy conditions. In this case the bridles were manufactured wrong and the kiter got seriously hurt. The kite company (Caution) has no liability insurance. I wonder how many kite companies carry insurance?

http://www.nwkite.com/forums/t-31631


On a page 2 of NW forum we can read that he flew his new 8m kite one week prior of his accident

On that initial flight the pilot felt that the 8m kite had a lot of power

That was the clue right there that the back lines were way too tight and the kite could not sheet out

A complete investigation at this point was necessary before going back out on that kite again

I am very sorry he got hurt so bad


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 Post subject: Re: New kites and liability insurance.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 4:45 pm 
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And when you read the entire thread the author is not saying he did not make some mistakes. His point was the the seller does not have product liability insurance. He feels this shows disregard for the purchasers of their products.


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 Post subject: Re: New kites and liability insurance.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:04 pm 
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Location: Madison, Wi. Cabrinha, Slingshot, Blade, Axis, Mystic, NP Surf.
hightimes wrote:
Total BS!
A car is at least fired up once before it leaves the plant by trained peaple.
after that it is most likely driven onto a truck or in and out of a lot or showroom.

A kite is never even inflated before selling it.
The 12 year old kid stitching the kite together doesent even know what it is hes making.


Calling BS on the BS.

Sorry, but this statement sounds cool and all that, but it's blatantly untrue. Here is just one video of what goes on inside one of the factories. Other companies pre-inflate kites before selling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uE5dzuboHE#t=32

I think it's perfectly reasonable for customers to EXPECT the kite to fly well right out of the box. Minor tweaking due to soft knots etc and breaking in periods will lead to some minor adjustments, but there should not be a need for major adjustments out of the box. I've sold thousands of kites and on rare occasion have had anyone complain unless it's an obvious manufacturers defect.

All in all, they do a great job producing kites.

Bob
www.kiteridersllc.com


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 Post subject: Re: New kites and liability insurance.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:30 pm 
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Location: Montreal Canada
It's a not unreasonable expectation for a consumer to have that anything they buy should work straight out of the box, but it's also prudent for the same consumer to make checks on something they've purchased before trusting their safety (and that of others) to it. It's not possible to always legislate common sense and reasonable behaviour, and we'd all like to think a manufacturer would carry some sort of coverage against their own failings.... but I guess this thread highlights that some don't. Read the small print on the kite or in the manual, I bet there is some wording in which there will be a blanket denial of any liability put there by legal advisors.
Ultimately the person who is there to best look after you is you ........ caveat emptor, oh and check your home insurance policy for liability cover, to double mine cost pennies a month....

Have a great 2014 , stay safe.


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 Post subject: Re: New kites and liability insurance.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:45 pm 
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windybrit wrote:
It's a not unreasonable expectation for a consumer to have that anything they buy should work straight out of the box, but it's also prudent for the same consumer to make checks on something they've purchased before trusting their safety (and that of others) to it. It's not possible to always legislate common sense and reasonable behaviour, and we'd all like to think a manufacturer would carry some sort of coverage against their own failings.... but I guess this thread highlights that some don't. Read the small print on the kite or in the manual, I bet there is some wording in which there will be a blanket denial of any liability put there by legal advisors.
Ultimately the person who is there to best look after you is you ........ caveat emptor, oh and check your home insurance policy for liability cover, to double mine cost pennies a month....

Have a great 2014 , stay safe.


And your policy covers damage to others from any recreational activities? Are there any exclusions?


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