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 Post subject: Re: Core Bar...How do they do it?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:41 am 
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there is no such thing as a particular kite turning faster or slower. a kites flying speed doesn't change. just saying.

maybe it is more or less sensitive to steering input (how much the bar has to angle to effect the kite), maybe it takes more or less force to effect the steering (usually by adjusting outside line attachment point) maybe it turns in a tighter or wider radius (usually by adjusting bridle attachment points and the closest thing to "faster or slower" in terms of turning), but speed is speed not a steering characteristic. speed is how fast the kite moves forward (which could be a straight line or a circle or whatever).

that's right. im saying EVERYBODY is describing how their kite flies wrong. your all wrong. not sorry about hijacking this thread.
....
OP: 50cm on everything if you want to keep it simple. one universal bar, lots of kites.


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 Post subject: Re: Core Bar...How do they do it?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:27 pm 
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Yes, yes, I know they are adjustable. It just seems to me that most other manufactures feel the need to provide at least two (usually adjustable) bar sizes to cover a wider span. And with Core kites ranging from 5m to 19m, I am surprises they only have one size.

I guess I am wondering if they design the kites differently with the limited bar width in mind. How would a 19m a Core perform with a 67cm Cabrihna bar?


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 Post subject: Re: Core Bar...How do they do it?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:18 pm 
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Toby wrote:
North also has one bar size, no?

Who else?


North was the pioneer of the concept if I'm not mistaken, but more and more companies have adopted it since:

-Blade
-Core
-Naish (rather bogus implementation - still needs to be confirmed if it is actually effective at all)
-Zeeko / Starkites
-Mutiny
-Switch (North's rip-off)
-Gaastra
-Royal / Caution / Zian
-Spleene

I'm sure this is not even a half-complete list, just these I'm aware of from memory (and i've deliberately left of some small-timers).

The biggest con of adjustable bars is actually forgetting to re-adjust it when changing kites. Freaking annoying to go out on a light-wind kite only to realize that your bar is still adjusted for a 7m or the other way around.

Another "real-life" con is that you're buying into the whole "adjustable" idea in order to reduce the amount of bars you have to carry. However, you still need at least one backup bar anyways, especially on kite-trips - which kinda defeats the purpose.

The biggest "PRO" of non-adjustable bars is that most (adequate) manufacturers not only supply smaller kites with a shorter bar, but also with shorter lines. Imho a 6-7m kite flies a lot better on 18-20m than on "average" 22-24m lines.


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 Post subject: Re: Core Bar...How do they do it?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:56 pm 
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SupaEZ wrote:
How wide is the Epic bar that you use .....cm...inches...at widest...and narrowest setting


I don't have an epic bar, I do have bars which I have modded with Epic bar parts, mostly the new chickenloop,

The bars that I use are
1. 2013 Naish ATB with Epic chickenloop, which is 45-51cm (debatable... really none..)
2. 2014 Cabrinha Overdrive 1X which is 49-57cm

I like them both and can use either on all my kites.


Last edited by Laughingman on Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Core Bar...How do they do it?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:19 pm 
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bnthere wrote:
there is no such thing as a particular kite turning faster or slower. a kites flying speed doesn't change. just saying.

maybe it is more or less sensitive to steering input (how much the bar has to angle to effect the kite), maybe it takes more or less force to effect the steering (usually by adjusting outside line attachment point) maybe it turns in a tighter or wider radius (usually by adjusting bridle attachment points and the closest thing to "faster or slower" in terms of turning), but speed is speed not a steering characteristic. speed is how fast the kite moves forward (which could be a straight line or a circle or whatever).

that's right. im saying EVERYBODY is describing how their kite flies wrong. your all wrong. not sorry about hijacking this thread.
....
OP: 50cm on everything if you want to keep it simple. one universal bar, lots of kites.



If everyone (on this forum) is using the 'wrong word' but understanding the meaning, then perhaps it's meaning (on this forum) has altered somewhat and therefore to use this word (on this forum) is correct and thus making you wrong! Apology accepted.


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 Post subject: Re: Core Bar...How do they do it?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:21 am 
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alexeyga wrote:
Toby wrote:
North also has one bar size, no?

Who else?


North was the pioneer of the concept if I'm not mistaken, but more and more companies have adopted it since:

-Blade
-Core
-Naish (rather bogus implementation - still needs to be confirmed if it is actually effective at all)
-Zeeko / Starkites
-Mutiny
-Switch (North's rip-off)
-Gaastra
-Royal / Caution / Zian
-Spleene





I stand corrected. I guess I am not doing enough online shopping.


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 Post subject: Re: Core Bar...How do they do it?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:57 am 
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more on topic


for many riders a medium (about 50cm) bar is fine for all the kite sizes you will use (8-14 ish)

a shorter bar or a longer bar is something that can make more sense for a smaller or bigger person. for a 100lber in a high wind location always riding a 4 - 8 a short bar makes sense

similarly true for a 250er with a 14 and an 18 might as well run a long bar.

older kites or kites less sensitive to steering input suffered in the big sizes without a longer bar, but that is not really the case with most big kites now they are responsive enough to maneuver fine on mid size. obviously there are no restrictions in the other direction and never were, there is not really such thing as a bar too big to be able to fly a kite of any size.


a similar topic is harness loop size, harness hook size, binding size, and a variety of other things that many brands continue to only offer in one stock size that fits well an average size rider but not so well on the smaller or bigger, or the ones with long arm reach or shorter, etc.

bar size options aren't really necessary at this point but can benefit some riders and can be useful to the people that want them. not me, one bar lots of kites.

im not apologizing for anything in the earlier comment except that it was off topic. hopefully people will eventually smarten up about how their kite gear actually works, and realize how to translate that unambiguously into language. tough I know for a bunch of beach bums and stoners, but we have come this far so im still hopeful.


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 Post subject: Re: Core Bar...How do they do it?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:48 pm 
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Toby wrote:
North also has one bar size, no?

Who else?


They come in two adjustable sizes. 42-49 and 46-53. For what it is worth.


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 Post subject: Re: Core Bar...How do they do it?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:24 am 
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I don't think there's been a single relevant response to the topic of this thread so far lol.

Yes, I would agree with you that they must design the kites with the bar size in mind. Some companies bars keep getting bigger (LF bumped almost all their kites up a bar size after 2012) but it seems like many others are finding ways to tweak the kite shape and downsize the bar. Take a look at the new Ozone C4, every size is meant to be ridden on the 45cm (!) bar, even the 15m


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 Post subject: Re: Core Bar...How do they do it?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:12 pm 
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bnthere wrote:
there is no such thing as a particular kite turning faster or slower. a kites flying speed doesn't change. just saying.

maybe it is more or less sensitive to steering input (how much the bar has to angle to effect the kite), maybe it takes more or less force to effect the steering (usually by adjusting outside line attachment point) maybe it turns in a tighter or wider radius (usually by adjusting bridle attachment points and the closest thing to "faster or slower" in terms of turning), but speed is speed not a steering characteristic. speed is how fast the kite moves forward (which could be a straight line or a circle or whatever).

that's right. im saying EVERYBODY is describing how their kite flies wrong. your all wrong. not sorry about hijacking this thread.
....
OP: 50cm on everything if you want to keep it simple. one universal bar, lots of kites.


This is what a longer bar does...

A longer bar will pull the outside steering lines a longer distance for a given amount of bar movement. Imagine that your bar is in neutral (horizontal) and you pull on one side. For the same bar angle a longer bar will pull the steering line a longer distance for than a shorter bar will. So, the shorter bar will need to be pulled further from horizontal to achieve the same steering input to the kite.

Ed


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