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 Post subject: Re: PMU = Thread & Forum Killer
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:25 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:51 am
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Location: Where Bullsh!t Stinks!
Pump me up wrote:
There are a LOT of bullshit claims by kite companies regarding light wind capabilities. NO kite will perform in < 7-8 knots. The owners and distributors of the Epic Infinity are among the worst offenders. To claim the Epic Infinity can perform in "2-4 knots" (even if it is with a SUP) is ridiculous and a blatant lie and leaves the company wide open to claims from disgruntled users.

WIND GRADIENT & FETCH
The use of anecdotal evidence to try to support a generalisation is always suspicious. Epic's owners continually posting videos & images of kites flying in conditions without whitecaps and claiming "5 knots" are misleading; obviously wind gradient http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_gradient and/or short wind "fetch" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetch_(geography) are involved.

RELATIVE KITE PERFORMANCE
The ONLY way to gauge the RELATIVE performance of kites in light winds is to fly them side-by-side, with similarly experienced riders and similar boards.

LIGHT WIND KITE DESIGN
It is simply not possible for the Epic Infinity (V1, 2, or 3) to surpass significantly the performance of every other light wind kite in existence. There is NOT enough energy for ANY kite to perform in "2-4 knots of wind". With BIG light wind kites, various modifications have been tested over many years: Fast-turning big kites need to be fat (i.e. lower aspect ration & long middle struts), but the payoff is poorer upwind ability and slightly inferior low-end. Narrower (high aspect ratio) kites go upwind better, but turn more slowly. e.g. Flysurfer's "Speeds" are very narrow, but very SLOW turning. There is no such thing as a fast-turning, ultra-low end, exceptional upwind, easily relaunchable kite with a lot of range; there's always a trade-off.

Epic's Bad Sportsmanship & Fundamental Dishonesty
Recently, EPIC's ~16m V3 Infinity challenged a 19m kite to a "duel". Epic lost. During the duel, despite having plenty of opportunity to use line extensions and a surfboard, Epic refused to do so, "because (he) didn't need them". But to subsequently use this as an excuse for losing is …. pathetic and fundamentally dishonest. This fundamental dishonesty was compounded by outright slander, claiming the opponent had to swim out to get started.

Epic Lies & Exaggerations
Epic's owners are well known to stretch the truth, e.g.:
Dimitri M wrote:
Infinity V2 has the power of a 19 meter but turns like a 14 meter. :thumb:
Compared to the Core19m kite, the Epic Infinity V3 was noticeably INFERIOR; it certainly didn't have the "power of a 19m".

Until this vid surfaced, Epic was claiming light wind domination at this event. The inferiority of the Epic Infinity in light winds is demonstrated, as is the fundamental dishonesty of Epic in trying to portray otherwise. Epic struggling and then collapsing into the water while the Cabrinha LW kite blasts past. Compelling. Hilarious! And a savage indictment of Epic and its marketing. The Epic Infinity can NOT fly in ?7/8 knots, let alone 2-4 knots.

SUP-kiting in 9 Knots
Despite the "2-4" knot claims, the Epic Infinity CANNOT perform on a SUP until ~ 9 knots.

STOP THE BULLSHIT: RETURN THEIR KITES
There IS a simple way to put to rest ridiculous claims by Epic or any other kite company: BUY THEIR KITES. If they don't perform in 2-4 knots on a SUP or whatever - let alone below 7-8 knots (and they won't), then return them. A "class action" against these companies, perhaps using this forum as a meeting point, will force these companies to be more truthful.

Ignore the lies. Ignore the propaganda.
No kite can perform under 7-8 knots, let alone 2-4 knots.

Pumpy ……………………… :pump:
Finally the evidence 2-4 knots BS freshly speaking for itself,
when PMU opened the "Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims" thread :thumb: :alarm:



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 Post subject: Re: PMU = Thread & Forum Killer
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:22 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 11:48 pm
Posts: 356
Dave_5280 wrote:
None of us have any rights to post, and limiting the post length is not the only thing Toby could do. Toby has banned people in the past. He should ban PMU now.


The only right anyone has on this forum are granted by the moderators.

Dave_2580,

Why don't you just make PMU a "foe" and stop whining the like the queen mother of all pussies?

Do you know how weak and helpless you sound? You make yourself a victim.

Toby,

How about banning pussies or is there a pussy filter that I can use that does not filter out Most Sexy Kite Pictures :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: PMU = Thread & Forum Killer
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:31 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:40 pm
Posts: 523
Dave_5280 wrote:
DrLightWind wrote:
Dave_5280 wrote:
Toby it is time for you to step up and tell us what you are going to do about the PMU problem.
I don't think it is a problem, he has the right to post like everybody else!
The only thing could be done if Toby wanted to is to limit the lengthy post
to tone it dawn to 500 or whatever words limit per / posting :idea:

DrLW


None of us have any rights to post, and limiting the post length is not the only thing Toby could do. Toby has banned people in the past. He should ban PMU now.


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 Post subject: Re: PMU = Thread & Forum Killer
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:42 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:00 am
Posts: 2571
Location: Madison, Wi. Cabrinha, Slingshot, Blade, Axis, Mystic, NP Surf.
No ban unless someone is threatening another member.

Bob


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 Post subject: Re: PMU = Thread & Forum Killer
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:32 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:47 pm
Posts: 2429
PMU = Thread & Forum Truth Seeker....if there is BS with foils or tubes...he is on it

Killer of BS

Today's Average Joe review made my day about the V3 that i challenged Dec 11th 2012

Many suggested that i had cheated to smackdown the V3 piloted by it's master
Raceboard !!.....swam chest deep to get out upwind !!...board had long fins!!...kite had long lines !!
In reality...now we know at last...that it is the kite that is better in light wind

My favorite Ocean Adventures tester is Randy 5'9" 175 lbs

About the V3 he said....just did not like the kite...it is not my thing...i tought it pulled fairly well ...
......i don't think it pulled as well as other kites out there...i had real trouble getting upwind

Now about the XR3 19 he said..."OMG" Oh my gosh..i love everything about the Core....
....real light bar pressure...i can get upwind like crazy on that kite....turn really well...
....and powers through the loop

:happybirthday: :happybirthday: :happybirthday: :happybirthday: :happybirthday:


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 Post subject: Re: PMU = Thread & Forum Killer
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:44 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 5:48 pm
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Location: Sailing the Seas of Cheese
Well that was a quick relapse Supa.....


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 Post subject: Re: PMU = Thread & Forum Killer
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:58 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:59 pm
Posts: 141
SupaEZ wrote:
PMU = Thread & Forum Truth Seeker....if there is BS with foils or tubes...he is on it

Killer of BS

Today's Average Joe review made my day about the V3 that i challenged Dec 11th 2012

Many suggested that i had cheated to smackdown the V3 piloted by it's master
Raceboard !!.....swam chest deep to get out upwind !!...board had long fins!!...kite had long lines !!
In reality...now we know at last...that it is the kite that is better in light wind

My favorite Ocean Adventures tester is Randy 5'9" 175 lbs

About the V3 he said....just did not like the kite...it is not my thing...i tought it pulled fairly well ...
......i don't think it pulled as well as other kites out there...i had real trouble getting upwind

Now about the XR3 19 he said..."OMG" Oh my gosh..i love everything about the Core....
....real light bar pressure...i can get upwind like crazy on that kite....turn really well...
....and powers through the loop

:happybirthday: :happybirthday: :happybirthday: :happybirthday: :happybirthday:



... and in the end, he wanted a Flite or a Contra (not sure which one)...

are we still on topic??


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 Post subject: Re: PMU = Thread & Forum Killer
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:37 pm 
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Posts: 2429
POACHER wrote:
Well that was a quick relapse Supa.....


If you think that's fast...you should have seen me live on the water....with my 19 vs the smaller V3 proto

Just saying that 4 guys + myself agree that the V3 is not the ultimate light wind machine

And you do not need to put it against a 19.....there are many 17's that are better light wind machines

Average Joe's have spoken :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: PMU = Thread & Forum Killer
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:27 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:49 am
Posts: 1070
Location: shallow sea
joriws wrote:
flyingweasel wrote:
Looks fine to me!

:)You checked bad. I find many inaccuracies but let's mention PMU's competition and racing statements. I see that #1 PKRA ranked... Elfs also dominating races...
I also wonder why creators of the Edge are now suddenly making Chrono? Any good answers? Why make inferior kite with ram air technology which seems to be race oriented kite by high AR and 45ish cells? Or is it better than Edge? I hope Team Ozone racers will never use foil^2 because PMU will loose his/her pressure. :)
Interesting times 2014.. :)

so who in their right mind would buy an elf kite? who wants to look like an elf under it while kiting?
kites like these are made for one purpose only and for the narrow extent of ideal conditions. good luck with elf or this chrono kite...


as for PMU posts: do someone of you feel confused or vulnerable after reading his(her) posts? so you are probably the reason for all of those foil kiters vs sle kiters jokes. MTFU!


i agree with most of PMU sais, but i didn't need him(her) to point it up to me. i figured it up for myself by now, i had the chance to use the foil kites and i did not like it at all. besides next time you go to the beach kiting take a moment and count the sle vs foil kites. you'll get the answer...
Attachment:
1525151_620841051311456_1923728535_n.jpg
1525151_620841051311456_1923728535_n.jpg [ 27.31 KIB | Viewed 466 times ]


i would not buy a foil kite just by seeing this photo!


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 Post subject: Re: PMU = Thread & Forum Killer
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:45 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:47 pm
Posts: 2429
eree wrote:
i would not buy a foil kite just by seeing this photo!


Agree....aside from the fact that it is warping...the nice white color has changed to brownish white...
....Yuk


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