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 Post subject: Re: Alternate choices (cheaper then Speeds) for light wind
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:45 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:51 pm
Posts: 126
Location: Toronto, ON
sarc wrote:
Matthieu how does the Aurora15 jump? Height, glide? Any concern on stability/invert/bowties if mess up the jump or the landing in gusty air?

What's hi and low wind range for 200lb (90kg) on a surfboard?

I'm intrigued.


You didn't read my 'review' then, huh?

It's impossible to speak to the stability or other flight behaviour of Auroras in any objective fashion. They all require tuning out of the box, and everyone has done their own thing to make it work as best they can. Pansh has also been known to make design changes midstream without documenting them.

Initially, people complained about overflight/luffing problems and we figured out they needed more rear line tension, so everybody has some pigtails on their front leaders. This also changes the effective wind range of the kite, reducing the top end a bit. To add to the confusion, since it's Bring Your Own Bar, it's tough to make sense of people's successes and failures because everybody is on different size bars with different line lengths and different trimming options.

That being said, if I'm able to get the thing to fly competently, I expect I'll be able to get my 160lbs out on my 5'2"x22" fish SB in 8-9 kts.--perhaps a bit less. It's an apparent wind monster which doesn't readily slough-off power. I'd want to switch to an inflatable at earliest convenience, but might be able to hold it down with a smaller twintip to around 15kts before it'd untenably scary. I don't expect the 15m would work well at all in gusty conditions--thinking about being attached to it in the kind of gusty conditions we get around here kinda makes me want to cry. I've had a few instances with the thing which would have resulted in kitemares had I not the sense to punch-out. It's a fickle beast, rapidly transitioning between three states:

1. Frustration: "...aaand turn. Please turn. TURRRNNN!!!"
2. Elation: "OMFG, it's working! IT'S WORKING!!!"
3. Fear: "Whoa. Whoa. Stahp with the pulling! Ahhh!"

Sorry I can't speak to the jumpability of it yet, any time I've had it out, the conditions have been marginal or there have been tuning problems. To sum it up: I'd be worried about everything all the time with an Aurora 15m, it just doesn't inspire confidence.

I've heard great things about the 12m though, so they've got that going for them, which is nice. :P

I ask again: How much do you value your time? Your life?

If you do go ahead with this endeavour, I'd suggest the following: A huge-ass bar with ridiculously long throw and trimming options (below-bar might be the best thing here--maybe something like a 5-line version of the Ocean Rodeo Freeride bar). You need the long bar to get the damn thing to turn, the long throw to have a hope at any sort of depower, and the limitless trim to give you some wind range and avoid having to do tuning in 6" increments. I'm using a Naish Shift and it's less than ideal.


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate choices (cheaper then Speeds) for light wind
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:07 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:53 am
Posts: 1104
I have read this thread with interest. I use a 21m Speed 3 for light wind riding. However, I have tried numerous kites over the years. I appreciate how John (Loco) brought the 10.5 Blade into the conversation and for Roberto for mentioning the 9m Peak. I know that I have often fallen into the mindset that a larger kite is necessary for lightwind riding. However, if a designer could tame a smaller size, yet retain maximum efficiency I doubt the kite would need to be much larger than 12 sq meters. I don't know if it is possible, but it sure would be nice. I have to say that the 9m Peak is pretty darn impressive. My son was flying one today in very light winds at Skyline. Most of the other kiters could not even get there kites off the ground. What made it doubly impressive was that it was only his third day snowkiting. So, here we have a newbie flying in sub 10 mph wind keeping up with experienced kiters on much larger kites. I happened to be making it work on a 15m Speed 4 Lotus.

I think the single-skin foil has a lot of potential. I would like to see some larger sizes and higher aspect ratios. I love my Speeds, but it would be awesome if they packed down smaller and did not require pre-inflation and deflation every session. The Peak is just so convenient for launch and landing.


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate choices (cheaper then Speeds) for light wind
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:34 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 586
Hey Kenny,

Imagine an Ozone XXLite (16 or 19) with a good depower system. Something like that could be of great interest to you if it could depower well and remain stable in flight. I would love to throw a little homemade mixer under those bridles just to see what happens.

Have fun.


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate choices (cheaper then Speeds) for light wind
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:43 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 2:27 pm
Posts: 76
thinking out of the box...
has anybody ever tried a NASA kite on the water? people say they pull like a tank. someone descibed to me the pull being like a Toyota Lancruzer in 4x4 low.
ive been toying with the idea of a 12 meter for wave ridding. i think the ride might be a bit "boring". but i might even be able to do it with no lines like street skate ridding just to get on some waves.

but here's a bit of a concern:
i dont care about "water relaunchability". But....
i was just about to buy a 15 meter NASA from some guy, and when i said what i was going to use it for, he told me a story.
He said he was flying it from a small boat once and crashed it into the water. he said that it didnt just crumple and lay on the water. its such an effeicient flying wing, that it started diving and pulling down through the water. it was flying in the water straight down and trying to pull him off the boat. he said the more tension he put on it, the more it would pull because there was some current.
so, i didnt buy it.

its always been in the back of my mind though.

when i write this, obviously ther's no depower to a NASA so for a travel kite like Loco is looking for wouldnt be good because no range of use. but for those 5-8 knot afternoon seabreeze with some waves to be had... maybe?


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate choices (cheaper then Speeds) for light wind
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:54 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 586
Hey Flyfish,

The biggest timitation I know of with a Nasawing is the low L/D ratio which would really limit upwind performance. I've never flown one so I'm not trying to pretend I know from experience. But that's what I've heard. I'd sure love to try one though.

As for the problem you described upon crashing, that is a real danger with a number of wings because the can remain wings under water. That happened with early framed kites (C-quads) as well as with bridled foils. The key is to release from the flying lines (just as if you're in trouble with a flying kite out of control) so that the the kite stops acting like a kite and behaves like a big wet rag. A leash to somewhere in the trailing edge, a tip or along the midline of the kite could keep it from drifting away.

Do you or your friends have any experience with upwind riding on water with the larger, hight aspect ratio Nasawings? Let us know.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate choices (cheaper then Speeds) for light wind
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:07 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 2:27 pm
Posts: 76
no, i dont. but now that you mention it, the upwind issue was the other issue that stopped me from buying one. but i really think i still want to try one out just to stop my mind from wondering...


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate choices (cheaper then Speeds) for light wind
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:09 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 1470
Location: PASA Level III Instructor FL- OBX - MI - the world
fernmanus wrote:
... However, if a designer could tame a smaller size, yet retain maximum efficiency I doubt the kite would need to be much larger than 12 sq meters.

....I have to say that the 9m Peak is pretty darn impressive. My son was flying one today in very light winds at Skyline. Most of the other kiters could not even get there kites off the ground. What made it doubly impressive was that it was only his third day snowkiting. So, here we have a newbie flying in sub 10 mph wind keeping up with experienced kiters on much larger kites. I happened to be making it work on a 15m Speed 4 Lotus.

I think the single-skin foil has a lot of potential.....

....The Peak is just so convenient for launch and landing.


yes, yes, yes, and yes.

Was riding with a friend the other day (a very good kiter), me on 9m Peak, he on 13m RPM....me ripping past him in light air, having a blast, Peak floating like a cloud with power...my friend trying to keep his kite in the air

I let my buddy try the Peak...maybe 10-11 kts of wind...he was amazed

Yesterday I was powering up dunes in 10-11 kts, moving nicely on the flats in 8 -9 kts.

Another cool thing about the Peak is that your confidence level goes way up...the kite is so easy to handle and flys effortlessly in light wind...it makes getting into and out of tight spots so easy and FUN!!!!!


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