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 Post subject: Re: Engine Harness Feedback
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:31 pm 
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Location: Ontario
Thanks. Don't the engine carbon spreader and the dakine hook up differently? I'd love a real simple swap.


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Harness Feedback
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:39 pm 
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Location: Southwestern Ontario
Starsky wrote:
Thanks. Don't the engine carbon spreader and the dakine hook up differently? I'd love a real simple swap.


I just created two loops 4" diameter of 3/8" AM Steel which I use for the Engine spreader bar. The dakine power clip hooks to the loops and one loop goes through the spreader bar and the other hooks to it. When I want to use the dakine spreader bar I just unhook the engine and hook up the dakine.


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Harness Feedback
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:28 pm 
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Location: Western USA
Laughingman wrote:
Starsky wrote:
WRT the engine harness. What is the best spreader bar option for those who want to have both a fixed hook for TT days and a sliding set up for wave days. I'm not apposed to having two interchangeable spreaders, in fact it is preferable to undoing parts to switch up.

Definitely pulling the trigger soon on one of these but would love to hear what the user base has to say on spreader bars first.


Hey Starsky
I use two spreader bars for the exact reasoning you have specified. My slider bar is made by Engine, and I also use a Dakine spreader bar and pad for the flat water days.
Comfort wise I prefer the flat Engine bar and will likely buy the fixed hook version once they are available. I can switch them in about a minute. They both work perfectly.

Hey LMan - Have you had any comfort issues when using the fixed S-bar? I found this post from another user that had me a little concerned...
Quote:
If you want to use it with a mystic spreader be sure to have him put a 3rd "hold-down" strap on. It makes the hook stay down much better. But really that harness works much better with a sliding hook. Because the back support is very rigid and is molded to be centered on your back if gets pulled to one side by a non-sliding hook the bump on the harness that normally fits into the small of your back can pressure some muscles on the side of your spine (at least this happens for me) and it can be quite painful. With a sliding hook the harness does not rotate at all and works really well.
With a sliding hook there is minimal upward rotation even with two straps. With a non-sliding hook, (only tried mystic) the third strap does a good job to prevent upward rotation, but without it there is some upward pull that causes the spreader to dig in to my ribs a bit


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Harness Feedback
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:48 pm 
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Location: Southwestern Ontario
I never liked my harness to rotate like some others do who purposefully leave it loose so that it slides around. If you like this then the engine is likely not for you as it needs to be snug and when it is it will not rotate or rise up. I could see some discomfort if it was not snug enough.
I will say the flat spreader bar from engine works better then the dakine one I have as far as pivoting up is concerned. Mine doesn't pivot past the front strap but I can sometimes feel a bit of pressure. When engine comes out with his flat fixed hook I will buy one, although my wife always uses a fixed hook and she says it never pivots uncomfortably on her. She also has a history of back issues and is super happy with her engine then she ever was with her board short harness so I think that says something....

Now if you are really worried about the pivoting of the spreader bar, you could always have the pad sewn directly to the strap, it is wide enough and once this is done there is no chance of it moving. This is how I use my slider bar, I have a pouch with velcro tabs that holds in firmly in place although I don't think it would move regardless. I'll take a picture tonight if you are interested.


Da Yoda wrote:
Laughingman wrote:
Starsky wrote:
WRT the engine harness. What is the best spreader bar option for those who want to have both a fixed hook for TT days and a sliding set up for wave days. I'm not apposed to having two interchangeable spreaders, in fact it is preferable to undoing parts to switch up.

Definitely pulling the trigger soon on one of these but would love to hear what the user base has to say on spreader bars first.


Hey Starsky
I use two spreader bars for the exact reasoning you have specified. My slider bar is made by Engine, and I also use a Dakine spreader bar and pad for the flat water days.
Comfort wise I prefer the flat Engine bar and will likely buy the fixed hook version once they are available. I can switch them in about a minute. They both work perfectly.

Hey LMan - Have you had any comfort issues when using the fixed S-bar? I found this post from another user that had me a little concerned...
Quote:
If you want to use it with a mystic spreader be sure to have him put a 3rd "hold-down" strap on. It makes the hook stay down much better. But really that harness works much better with a sliding hook. Because the back support is very rigid and is molded to be centered on your back if gets pulled to one side by a non-sliding hook the bump on the harness that normally fits into the small of your back can pressure some muscles on the side of your spine (at least this happens for me) and it can be quite painful. With a sliding hook the harness does not rotate at all and works really well.
With a sliding hook there is minimal upward rotation even with two straps. With a non-sliding hook, (only tried mystic) the third strap does a good job to prevent upward rotation, but without it there is some upward pull that causes the spreader to dig in to my ribs a bit


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Harness Feedback
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:14 pm 
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Location: Western USA
Laughingman wrote:
Now if you are really worried about the pivoting of the spreader bar, you could always have the pad sewn directly to the strap, it is wide enough and once this is done there is no chance of it moving. This is how I use my slider bar, I have a pouch with velcro tabs that holds in firmly in place although I don't think it would move regardless. I'll take a picture tonight if you are interested.

Thanks for the response. I'm actually more concerned about the harness spinning or sliding around my waist. The other guy had an issue with this when using the fixed S-bar. Since it's molded it makes sense that the center section could dig into your back if it were to slide to one side. I haven't used a sliding hook yet, but since I spend a lot of time on surfboard, it's been on my list to try. Currently I like the fixed feel, but I do let my harness slide around a bit. I don't run my harness loose to achieve this, I just suck in my gut and make it spin.


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Harness Feedback
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:48 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 11:48 pm
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Da Yoda wrote:
Quote:
If you want to use it with a mystic spreader be sure to have him put a 3rd "hold-down" strap on. It makes the hook stay down much better. But really that harness works much better with a sliding hook. Because the back support is very rigid and is molded to be centered on your back if gets pulled to one side by a non-sliding hook the bump on the harness that normally fits into the small of your back can pressure some muscles on the side of your spine (at least this happens for me) and it can be quite painful. With a sliding hook the harness does not rotate at all and works really well.
With a sliding hook there is minimal upward rotation even with two straps. With a non-sliding hook, (only tried mystic) the third strap does a good job to prevent upward rotation, but without it there is some upward pull that causes the spreader to dig in to my ribs a bit


i use a sliding spreader bar and have not experienced the problem with the harness putting pressure on the muscles on either side of my spine. I do feel pressure, at times, on the bottom of my ribs, but I suspect that is more of a function of my body type than the harness. I use the Dynabar sliding hook but you can make a similar hook for a couple of dollars. Most who try a sliding hook do not go back to a fixed hook in my observation. I think I have the perfect combination of harness and bar.


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Harness Feedback
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:18 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:19 am
Posts: 90
Location: San Mateo, CA USA
I have been kiting with my Engine Custom Kite Harness for a few months now in a variety of conditions, and so far I have been pretty happy with it. It was an adjustment for me returning to a pure waist harness again as well as discovering the feel of a custom hard shell harness. My former harness was an Ocean Rodeo Session 2 hybrid harness. I prefer a waist harness, but can't enjoy riding very long, especially consecutive days, always fighting the harness constant migration up to a position higher than my waist. The Ocean Rodeo has leg straps which help maintain the waist position. A mediocre solution at best to control ride up. The Engine harness is the first waist harness I have found to replace my Ocean Rodeo hybrid on most days.

First impression- really warm compared to my current harness! I guess the custom fit doesn't allow much water or air gap. That could be a con in warmer climates, but has been ok for me, even on a trip to Maui. The pro to that is the skin of the neoprene really has a lot of direct contact area to grip your back. I have not tried any of the Mystic harnesses that have the Boa tightening system, so I don't know how they or any similar harness compares, but having lumbar in the lower back of a harness is a great concept. The contour matches my back really well and provides a great locked in feel. This especially helps keep the harness from twisting and reduces harness upward migration quite a bit compared to any waist harness I have ever tried. However if you do get yarded, if is noticeably more difficult to push the harness back down, at least while riding. That is understandable considering the initial fit is so great. Small price to pay I'd say.

It took 3+ months to receive the harness after initial fitting. For me it was worth it, but most people don't have my patience. If Engine could get that down to less than a month, a more reasonable wait time would help with some customers frustration.

Some other criticism I have heard from people is that the Engine harness seems amatuer or unfinished for the price, even overpriced. Also they don't want to have to do more assembly or customization before it is complete and ready to use. They want a finished product right out of the box. I can understand all that, but I don't think Engine is what you want in that case.

An Engine custom kite harness is still a relatively new innovation in the kite market and it continues to evolve. Check out the facebook page to see how the latest ones look. Each one is built by hand. I don't know how much you make per hour/ salary, but it definitely looks like a lot of work to me to build one on your own. No thanks. It's not perfect, but will continue to improve. You must embrace the fact that your harness will be one of a kind, is well thought out, well built, and was made specifically for you, but you might have to do a little more before you are stoked on it.

Post purchase customization for me was not an issue as I am a bit of a tinkerer and end up customizing and creating many belongings in my life either because what I need doesn't exist, or simply to get the ultimate ergonomics and satisfaction. Having an industrial sewing machine helps too :-)

Upgrades:
1) 3rd strap. Definitely get this unless you are only using a rope slider type spreader bar. Doesn't matter much for exclusive wave riding, but helps for hooked in riding.
2) Hook knife pocket: Took mine off after 1st session due to poor location. It sounded good, but for me, it is too uncomfortable to have anything between the spreader bar and my stomach (see post purchase modifications)
I didn't get any artwork on mine to keep the cost down, but some of the creations look pretty cool and definitely add to the customized effect.

Before kiting assembly:
1) Temporarily added a handlepass leash line to the back. Hopefully this is improved in the future. I still need to come up with a better way of attaching my leash so I can reach it at all times and/or be able to release the handlepass leash line. I picked up some stainless quick links to add to the loops and am in the process now of making something more permanent.
2) Added DaKine spreader bar hooks and put Dynabar spreader bar into spreader bar pocket.

Post purchase modifications:
1) Removed spreader bar pocket and resecured it all the way down on the harness belt. Came stock with it sewn in the middle, but I found it WAY more comfortable when relocated to the bottom of the belt. This may not be necessary depending on what bar you use with it.
2) Relocated hook knife pocket to slide onto webbing between spreader bar and harness.

After fine tuning my Engine, I am pretty stoked. Coleman has come up with a great product, maybe even a functional piece of art. I would recommend anyone to get an Engine unless somehow you are perfectly happy with whatever you are using.


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