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 Post subject: Re: kite Pump Concept Design
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:25 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:25 pm
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Location: Vancouver
Lots of good comments made already.

Two more comments:

1. A cylindrical pump doesn't significantly distort under pressure. A pump body with flat walls would have to be strong enough to withstand at least 8psi without deflecting to the point of compromising seals. 8psi may not seem like much but it adds up to 384 pounds against a 30X10cm (12" X 4") pump-body wall. I guess there's a reason pump and engine cylinders are called cylinders!

2. Without wildly complex inner workings, the hose must be connected to the piston, not the pump body, in order to pump on both upstrokes and downstrokes.

Cheers,
James


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 Post subject: Re: kite Pump Concept Design
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:03 am 
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Location: Cape Charles, Virginia
An alternative pump design doesn't necessarily need to compete with the big, cheap pumps that we already have. What we need is a "downwinder" pump - something small enough that I can strap it to the back of my harness. But not the super crappy little hand pumps from the early days of kiting - those are TOO small. But we need the equivalent of the little hand pump that you take mountain biking. It doesn't work as well as a big floor pump, but it doesn't need to. Not only would this allow people to go on adventurous downwinders without fear of being stranded halfway because of minor kite failure, but there are also downwinder situations where it would be nice to pump up and not have to leave the pump behind. My own kiteboarding world consists of many different downwinder scenarios. And many more doors would open if there were a semi-decent, smallish pump that I could easily take with me while riding.


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 Post subject: Re: kite Pump Concept Design
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:59 am 
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Save your money on a patent attorney by learning their kinder garden claim language..The whole idea behind patent language is to confuse the hell out of the other attorneys so that no one knows what to copy in the first place...they pay no attention to logical thought, complete sentences or correct grammar...in fact, they get payed for making it more convoluted and backwards....heres some of the putrid language to help you get going..


I claim:
1. Inflation apparatus for inflating a kite comprising: inflating means for releasably pumping up the kite into a position to be launched or landed, said inflating means being for allowing said kite to be placed under high pressure in response to a pushing force by said pump and for automatically inflating the kite’s internal bladder when the pulling and pushing force on said pump apparatus is performed in an orderly succession.

:pump:


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 Post subject: Re: kite Pump Concept Design
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:41 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:51 pm
Posts: 32
I've also been thinking about building my own pump, geared especially toward travelling. Some features that I'd like:

1. Compact when packed in luggage. Ideally a closed cylinder with the piston, handle, shaft and tube all packed neatly inside. Maybe use a foot strap instead of a plastic base to stand on. I don't mind a bit of assembly once I arrive at my destination.

2. Easy pumping. Go for a smaller diameter piston and a longer cylinder to reduce the pumping force needed at higher PSI. Consider single action pump where pumping is done only on the down stroke. Having to pull up against the pump tends to hurt my back more.

3. Easy maintenance. Maybe have a replacable paper filter on the intake. Use something like silicon for the hose, not the corrugated crap that is usually sold. Make it easy to replace the piston O-ring seal. Make it easy to lube the inside once I arrive at my destination, and easy to clean out lube/sand once I go back home and pack everything back inside.

I reckon I can build a basic single-action pump from easily sourced material such as PVC drain pipe, aluminium tube, plumbing fittings and a large O-ring.


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 Post subject: Re: kite Pump Concept Design
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:25 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:43 pm
Posts: 660
Location: Sweden
rynhardt wrote:
I've also been thinking about building my own pump, geared especially toward travelling. Some features that I'd like:

1. Compact when packed in luggage. Ideally a closed cylinder with the piston, handle, shaft and tube all packed neatly inside. Maybe use a foot strap instead of a plastic base to stand on. I don't mind a bit of assembly once I arrive at my destination.

2. Easy pumping. Go for a smaller diameter piston and a longer cylinder to reduce the pumping force needed at higher PSI. Consider single action pump where pumping is done only on the down stroke. Having to pull up against the pump tends to hurt my back more.

3. Easy maintenance. Maybe have a replacable paper filter on the intake. Use something like silicon for the hose, not the corrugated crap that is usually sold. Make it easy to replace the piston O-ring seal. Make it easy to lube the inside once I arrive at my destination, and easy to clean out lube/sand once I go back home and pack everything back inside.

I reckon I can build a basic single-action pump from easily sourced material such as PVC drain pipe, aluminium tube, plumbing fittings and a large O-ring.


There's 2 -3 avenues here.
1. Good travel pump ( occasional usage)
2. portable downwinder pump ( niche market)
3. Better pump for everyday use ( mass market)

Years ago I sketched out and idea for nr. 3 : dual cylinders with smaller diameter and longer stroke. Ability to switch between dual cylinder, dual action for high volume pumping to single cylinder for high pressure. Pretty basic.

Your idea above is good start to travel pump. Basic problem with today's pump during travel is volume to pack. Mostly the bulky diameter.
Removable/foldable handle, use fabric foot strap or folding. Smaller dia and longer cylinder. Shorter corregated inflation tube. Silicon will just blow up like a balloon.


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 Post subject: Re: kite Pump Concept Design
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:30 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:43 pm
Posts: 660
Location: Sweden
And for all you patent jockies out there. Patents are hindering innovation. Companies spending significant money on patent fortresses, phoney patents and defending against patent trolls.

Go got an idea? Put it in the public domain. Nobody can patent it. Then its up to good old competitive factors to see who can make money.


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 Post subject: Re: kite Pump Concept Design
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:18 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:36 am
Posts: 13
thanks skyte, that what on my mind when i designed it... that there is lots of place for new kite pump in the market, much more compact... i love to get to the beach by bike that my kite is on the back and the board is on one of my hand... its really freedom.

but i heat how the pump look like on the side of the bag... you got what me ?
so i think that there is place for new design and that one is just one concept... its need much more work and developing on it.

i appreciate the way you all thinking its help a lot and open the mind
thanks


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 Post subject: Re: kite Pump Concept Design
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:31 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:36 am
Posts: 13
TomW,
Thank for your comment, im also an industrial designer and crazy on kitesurf :)
i design lots of plastic products so i know the industry and the production market very well... as you know it not easy at all to get good product in good price.
i also know how to make product to injection molding and how to think of cost and target to the market, and in that pump there is lots of work to do before it can get there... but i enjoy play with ideas and innovate new products, and maybe one day it will be a new pump.

ill kip working on that and ill love to hear what you thinking.
Cheers,
Kob


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 Post subject: Re: kite Pump Concept Design
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 10:57 pm
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I think NYkiter is trolling me. Patent claims can look a little strange to the layman. Millions of dollars are hanging in the balance depending on their interpretation, where a single misplaced comma can cause a different interpretation. Anyway, James Dyson (one of the richest inventors in the world) used to be a lone product designer and ignored for years. He appears to be pro patent as he has a team of patent attorneys working for him. Last time I saw him he was worth 400mill. Sure put your pump into the public domain and watch established players copy it within weeks if it is decent. Otherwise get some proper advice.


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 Post subject: Re: kite Pump Concept Design
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 10:57 pm
Posts: 17
I think NYkiter is trolling me. Patent claims can look a little strange to the layman. Millions of dollars are hanging in the balance depending on their interpretation, where a single misplaced comma can cause a different interpretation. Anyway, James Dyson (one of the richest inventors in the world) used to be a lone product designer and ignored for years. He appears to be pro patent as he has a team of patent attorneys working for him. Last time I saw him he was worth 400mill. Sure put your pump into the public domain and watch established players copy it within weeks if it is decent. Otherwise get some proper advice.


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