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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Cabrinha Contra vs 2014 Ozone Zephyr
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:41 am 
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+ 1 for the zephyr. That's if you ever want to unhook.

...oh hang on this is a core thread right. (And yes I've ridden the latest X3, nice enough kite).


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Cabrinha Contra vs 2014 Ozone Zephyr
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:36 am 
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Location: PASA Level III Instructor FL- OBX - MI - the world
Cool Greg, glad you got to try it!! Yes the big Cores are fast turning kite

I think the simplicity of and super light weight of the bar may have given you the initial impression that it's "cheap"...but there is nothing cheap about it. They reduced the weight of the bar by 40% but increased the strength by 40% with the Sensor bar. I had the ESP bar for a few years before but am in love with the Sensor. People like different things, but I prefer the simpler the better, get rid of all the unnecessary bits and bobs that only get in the way or cause problems.

re: the deflate stick...i usually just stick my finger in for a few seconds to start the deflate and the rest deflates on it's own. If it's cold perhaps the stick is nice if you have gloves on.

(maybe you should edit the title of the thread so that people don't get upset :roll: )


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Cabrinha Contra vs 2014 Ozone Zephyr
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:57 am 
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Westozzy wrote:
+ 1 for the zephyr. That's if you ever want to unhook.

...oh hang on this is a core thread right. (And yes I've ridden the latest X3, nice enough kite).


haha Fair enough @westozzy... The same local shop here sells a lot of Ozone stuff and the sales guy did give me a good pitch on the Zeph. In fact he was pushing that one the most. They have rentals and ones they use for lessons that I could try so perhaps I will also give that one a try to get a good feel for all 3. You are right. But the funny thing was I asked him what he rides mostly and he kind of hesitated and said "I ride the Core 17". We both chuckled... but Im reading lots of great things on the Zeph and it is a bit less pricier. I'll give it a go this weekend and report back. Saturday looks like a good wind forcast of 10-15 so good conditions to give the Zeph a whirl. But... the core XR3LW is a SOLID toy.

@Roberto: Agree on all fronts. Great bar and control feeling. Also like how you can adjust the bar length.


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Cabrinha Contra vs Zephyr (vs CORE XR3LW 17 too)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:58 am 
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The core will have a much better bottom end to be honest. It is a really nice kite, if you like that delta feel although it is a refined delta feel if you know what I mean. I reckon if all you were going to do is stay hooked in, cruise and boost then the cores a good option. It is also fast but lacks power through the loops compared to the zephyr ( say doing a back roll backloop or darkslide etc). The core has 3 pulleys either side (or two pulleys and a slider) and although it is surprisingly direct you can't get away with that completely.

Also unhooked the core does fall down..it's really the only aspect of this kite I found wasn't good enough. But you can't have it all.

Both great kites just make sure you demo all three options.

Never been on the contra but I will make sure I do by the end of this year, it really gets some great reviews hey.

..and I'm not upset, far from it, great advice all round I reckon. :D


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Cabrinha Contra vs Zephyr (vs Core XR3LW 17 too)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:04 am 
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Wow Greg, you have life sorted out.

Cool that you can test all 3 kites. Interesting to hear your views.
I'm a bit surprised you want a 17m kite. 17 on snow ?? I've snow kited in Italy and Sweden and I can't imagine putting up a 17, or need it. Unless you have deep deep powder..

Don't forget your quiver question ☺ :?: :?:
I'd really give a 15 a try if you can, I wish I could of. It may be better all around and a smaller gap to your 11.
My quiver is core 17, switch element 13, RRD obsession 9, switch method 7 ( use it very infrequently) .
My experience is that a quiver can be like this: 17-12-9 or 15-10.
Before I had 14-9-7 and that worked well, but my magic 14 died 3 years ago and never found one that replaced it.


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Cabrinha Contra vs Zephyr (vs Core XR3LW 17 too)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:57 pm 
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@TomW Thanks for the info! The 17's are for sure NOT for snow. For very light wind days in the summer. Here in Utah, the lakes by my house get a Thermal Breeze from 11-4pm that shoots up the canyon from desert like conditions. The air is very dry here too and Ive been shut out a lot as during the time window, the winds start out around 7-12, pick up to 15+, then calm back down and eventually cease. My 11SB here in the summer is good for about 1 -2 hours. The 17 gives me a full 5 hours on a normal thermal breeze day. But I mostly warm temp kite at my place in Puerto Rico and Im headed back there at the end of March so that's why I want to take one back there with me. While PR certainly has share of 15-25 days, they also have a bunch of 8-12 days (more than you would think). Its mostly calmer there in the winter and early summer. Winds pick up in the fall around Hurricane season (no surprise). I only had winter conditions to get my hands on the core 17 and get a feel for it. As far as quiver goes... I just got into the sport last year so Im still learning ranges and optimizing range. Also, boards play a role as you all know. I have learned that for my body weight, on a lite wave wing, the absolute bottom range of my 11 SB is 12 knots. Could probably go with a directional LW surf board to squeeze down to 11 knots, but at that point, its worth me just getting a LW kite. I currently carry 3 TT boards: Litewave Wing 149, Litewave carbon Kick 139 and 135. I'm still learning directional boards, that seems like a possible investment later in 2014 as I advance. But I have learned that I HATE staring at the beach with winds at 8-12 and not being able to ride!!! Hence the initial desire to invest in a LW kite quiver.

I hear ya on the 15m... I even asked the shop owner his opinion on that and he said the 17 stretches the thermal breeze window we get. But I def considered it and still am. I really liked the Core 17 as it didn't feel too crazy at 15 kts. The Contra was a bit more challenging to de-power at the top end. Again, mu goal is to have a LW kite for PR and also a kite that will let me ride for the full thermal breeze window we get here in Utah in the summer.

One of these days I'll grow a pair and get a 8 or 9 to use in the fall in Puerto Rico. But on snow, I usually use my 11 on the low wind, light pressure settings. Super fun!

@Westozzy... good info... I don't do a lot of crazy tricks right now. I just cruise around, go fast, carve upwind, do some toe side carves... A few boosts, but no crazy airs or spins. Im 35 and one bad crash away from being sidelined for a while. Getting older sucks but sports like this keep us young :jump: SO free-ride is more my things. I do throw in a wave or two in PR if conditions are right.

Sorry for the novel... just love the sport and appreciate all the insight from everyone.


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Cabrinha Contra vs Zephyr (vs Core XR3LW 17 too)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:45 am 
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TomW wrote:

I'm a bit surprised you want a 17m kite. 17 on snow ??


Hi Tom, I am just curious why you say that.

I see lots of people snowkiting with 17m + kites, even 21m Flysurfers, in ultralight winds. I have used my 15m Core a lot on the snow (in probably 9-13 kts depending on snow cover). I am 160# so don't ordinarily need anything much bigger than 15m inflatable.

(Greg - if I get out your way you are welcome to try my 15m)


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Cabrinha Contra vs Zephyr vs Core XR3LW
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:52 pm 
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Greg, sounds like a 17 is the ticket.

Robert, not an expert on snowkiting, but there's so little friction that apparent wind speed builds up and a 14 or 15 would be plenty even in 8 knots. And wind is so quickly changing in mountains.


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Cabrinha Contra vs Zephyr vs Core XR3LW
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:00 am 
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TomW wrote:
Robert, not an expert on snowkiting, but there's so little friction that apparent wind speed builds up and a 14 or 15 would be plenty even in 8 knots. And wind is so quickly changing in mountains.


I think your mostly right about that Tom. I suppose it depends on where you live and what kind of power you need. I've also heard that flying at high altitudes you need a bigger kite than at sea level...thats what some of the lads in Wyoming have said. I'm hoping to find out if thats true myself soon...hehe!

...and so, Tom, since you live in Sweden have you no chance to go snowkiting. I've always dreamt of going to Haugastol (Norway?) Must be some good spots in Sweden as well?


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Cabrinha Contra vs Zephyr vs Core XR3LW
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:43 pm 
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Ive learned in winter kiting that there is MUCH less friction and drag with the board on snow. That is the argument for less size comparative to weight and wind speed when kiting on snow. However, Ive used a 9m in 15 kts on the snow and an 11 and noticed marginal difference. I will say that snow wind tends to be a bit more gustier and changes direction more. Its not as consistent as warm/water base winds. Which is why a smaller kite is better overall comparative to weight. Since I don't have a 9m, I use my 11m in 14-17 in snow and I calibrate it to the high wind settings (third knot on the rear lines, trimmed to depower) and it works pretty nicely. Also, relaunching in snow is so easy... no currents taking you downwind and no fear of wrecking your gear on reef, rocks, beach, etc.

@rob you are right... higher altitude would favor a slightly bigger kite. In the summer time at high altitude FOR SURE you need a couple meters bigger. Which is why Im targeting the 17m over the 15m here in Utah. My lakes are at 3500 to 5000 ft above sea level. Bring a couple of quivers and hope you get good conditions. Its been kind of a stale winter snow and wind wise here. If the wind is not blowing, you can always go snowboarding at one of the many resorts.

@Westozzy... sorry bro, conditions actually were not good to test Zeph over the weekend. Will hold out for a good day. But looks like im going back to Puerto Rico at the end of March.


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