MikeBirt wrote:I agree that where the kite sits in the window is a topic well and truely open for discussion.
I agree, I am split on that issue for freeride kites. But as far onshore wave the discussion might start when we have the actual category. My guess is the discussion will be very short once people discover the product and benefits of the kite sitting deep for onshore wave. Majority of us almost never see half decent onshore conditions like clean onshore waves with side/on wind. Great Lakes Caribbean and even Cape Hatteras on a classic NE is wave coming from the same direction as the wind. So basically we are in the brake zone looking for a nice set popping out of all the crap. In that scenario you need a kite sitting deep ready to be turned giving us a bit of a kick in the ass to be able to catch the wave in a hurry. I am sure that once we get the product there will be no discussion after that.
mbman, I know many of us have different likings, and that is great.
But have you ever considered that YOU might be, maybe not "wrong", but at least not like most others prefer wave kites and boards ?
I also have very "distinct" likings regarding many things, and can be across the mainstream, I know - but in this case with both kites and boards I think the industry and almost every other poster in these threads, are spot on
I most often ride very, or even full, onshore waves since start of the 1980 windsurfing, and since 2005 when kitesurfing (for us surfers around here) changed to waveriding mostly.
My take on what I think about waveriding and kites in regards to wind direction:
Sideoffshore - REALLY difficult, and you want a really forward flying depowerable kite, that wont pull you off the wave.
Sideshore - almost everything works, easy to ride with the kite and go vertical, both aggresive or with kite parked.
Kites sitting deep are good and easy to ride, kites sitting forward has other advantages when you master these.
Onshore (well, sideonshore) - kites flying forward in the window by far preferred !
In order to go vertical, you need a kite that can fly far forward and be depowered max - so you get full freedom to ride "up" the wave.
If you had a kite that was sitting deep, it would pull in the wrong direction and not let you go up "against" the wind up the waveface towards the cutback
And I am certain we can all agree, that going "vertical" and in as full arcs as possible is what it is all about, the ultimate goal - and not just "wiggle" downwind as grandma and grandpa's
A kite that pulls too much when turned, is also a nightmare - BOTH in sideshore and onshore conditions IMO.
For onshore you can easily have a forward sitting kite pull instantly, when it is flown horisontal
And IF you want it to sit deep (as we often do when sideshore conditions), you simply pull the bar and balance the kite.
In other words - you can position such a kite EXACTLY where you want it, both deep in the window, or far forward - no constraints here
But requires a better backbone kite flying skill indeed - which many are not capable of, till they get more years of experience.
In light wind (10m2 and up - but NOT for waveriding in general - just fooling around), it is another ballgame - but here C kites that delivers a lot of power when turned, can actually be beneficial, yes.
But for normal waveconditions, no matter HOW onshore, a kite sitting deep thus pulling stable and more and not able to go as high, is mostly not desired
Some just LOVE kites sitting deep - personal preferences, but IMO that is a general preference and NOT for onshore waveriding specifically, on the contrary
Stable kites, good drift - yes, we all agree.
But having a deep sitting kite not fast upwind in onshore ? No way
(and bridles or not got absolutely nothing to do with this issue IMO, personal preference and should be left out of the discussion)
I also noticed you can not understand why all brands (and EVERYBODY) do not offer and like 3 strap waveboards ?
Again, have you ever thought that it could be you who had a very specific preference ?
Same thing as in this thread IMO, no offense, but looks like it
Wave kites and waveboards are definitely NOT designed for "perfect" conditions, I completely disagree with you here.
The kite (and board) evolution and designs are aimed at - the masses, as this is what we like the most, and what makes the best sale, a win-win for everybody almost
And only very few "extreme" designs.
I am not "after" you mbman, just stating that there COULD be a reason why most others love the current wave kites from most brands - individual preferences left out of course...