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 Post subject: Re: Laying out lines: Upwind or Downwind?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:57 pm 
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Posts: 340
Location: France
peter wrote,
Quote
"I can not see one single reason to defend rigging up or downwind instead of crosswind, and find it extremely rude to others in fact, as you will really annoy and be a PITA for all others kitesurfers :cry:
The only logical choice! crosswind!
SAFTY FIRST! What happens if a line breaks in flight because you dragged your lines across a sharp object doing either an up or down wind set up, and someone gets hurt.
Of course this could happen anyway, but why provoke it?
Is there a way on this forum to set up a survey like I have seen on others?
This way hopefully the sheer numbers of EXPERIENCED kiters can vote and at least try and open the minds of others.
Also, without the kiters free hand on the quick release there will be no assisted launch, good idea for tethered as well!
See the safety section on launching, well written!
Exception, foil kites do throw a monkey wrench in the system in light wind but we know this and give`m a break.
Sorry, but just because your instructor taught you either up or down wind does not make it correct,
maybe like all the b s they taught us in school?
As I said before, it may be easier for a beginner to see the lines correctly connected using up or down, but why not teach the cross connection method from the start?
And of course if you happen to be in a place where you can`t rig cross wind than don`t ride, kidding!
R H


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 Post subject: Re: Laying out lines: Upwind or Downwind?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:11 pm 
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Location: Hamburg, Germany
Peter_Frank wrote:
... I can not see one single reason to defend rigging up or downwind instead of crosswind, and find it extremely rude to others in fact, as you will really annoy and be a PITA for all others kitesurfers :cry:
The only place where I ever had a problem with not rigging crosswind was actually in Denmark. A very small landing and starting area at a fjord. I was pretty new to kiting and had never laid my lines crosswind, but it made sense there and I had no problem doing it like the others, after I was told so. And yes, the others seemed to think of us as being rude not to do it like they did (what we couldn´t see before, because when we started there was no one around). It was at the eastern side of the Rinkobing Fjord.

Nowhere else have I ever seen people doing it or seen anyone being annoyed by anyone not doing it. Even all the times I was at the Danish Northsea. Am I just ignorant? I will keep my eyes open when I am there next time. Maybe I just never saw it because I didn´t care.
For me, as long as no one else has a problem with it, I like the fact that I can stretch my downwind-lying lines to see that everything is attached as it should be before I launch on my own.

I actually find this thread quite interesting. Because I had actually wondered quite often why anyone would lie the lines out upwind, which I think is the way I was taught at kiteschool . I always thought the only reason was because those people had always done in that way. Which seems to part of it. But not all. Anyways, I will give the crosswind thing some more thought.

And the thread even is still all friendly, I like that :D


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 Post subject: Re: Laying out lines: Upwind or Downwind?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:16 pm 
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This has got to be one of the dullest threads ever and yet i'm still reading it.... fuck i need a new job!


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 Post subject: Re: Laying out lines: Upwind or Downwind?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:18 pm 
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sijandy wrote:
This has got to be one of the dullest threads ever and yet i'm still reading it.... fuck i need a new job!

you job is writing posts on forums? how much do they pay you?

and yet you did not said the same about the epic threads?


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 Post subject: Re: Laying out lines: Upwind or Downwind?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:55 pm
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Def some good insight on x-wind line set up and I can def see the impact with other kiters around and busy. Thanks for the info regarding that. I will experiment with this style next time I am out. Ive been fortunate to be at locations that haven't been really busy with other kiters at all, thus allowing a free choice to rig / launch how you please/desire. But that wont always be the case.

Question regarding a self launch when doing x-wind rigging... When you lay out the lines behind and then head to your bar at x-wind position (think same as downwind layout, but then walking your bar to x-wind position). Does the kite ever start tumbling or sliding on you guys downwind once it rotates into take off position? Or is that just a factor of pilot skills in getting it airborne as soon as lines tense and it rotates?

Ive been lucky to find spots where I live that don't have a lot of other kiters, But with that comes the necessity to always have to self launch. The Cab video is my go to self launch maneuver (has worked perfect every time) but am curious as to others how the kite behaves when the self launch from x-wind position. New to the sport so just trying to gather info from more experienced peeps here.

Sorry... I know this is a line rigging thread and not a launch skills thread, but thought I would ask the question.


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 Post subject: Re: Laying out lines: Upwind or Downwind?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:36 pm 
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eree wrote:
you job is writing posts on forums? how much do they pay you?

haha.... shit joke man

eree wrote:
and yet you did not said the same about the epic threads?

i said 'dullest' not 'mind blowingly irritating that i'd rather dig my eyeball out with a aids riddled rusty spoon'


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 Post subject: Re: Laying out lines: Upwind or Downwind?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:23 pm 
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eree wrote:
Question regarding a self launch when doing x-wind rigging... When you lay out the lines behind and then head to your bar at x-wind position (think same as downwind layout, but then walking your bar to x-wind position). Does the kite ever start tumbling or sliding on you guys downwind once it rotates into take off position? Or is that just a factor of pilot skills in getting it airborne as soon as lines tense and it rotates?

It depends on the kite design as to whether it will backslide or not during self launch. My old Warroos would slide a bit, then rock up to face the wind and take off. My Wainmans (Delta shape) never slid. They rocked up to face the wind immediately. (I think the Delta design was part of the reason) My Renegades.. sometimes they slide a little bit. I give a second pull on the lower line and that tends to put the brakes on the slide, and rock them up to face the wind.

Make sense?

Good Luck


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 Post subject: Re: Laying out lines: Upwind or Downwind?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:57 am 
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Location: Venice, Florida
Wedge, I agree with a helper being a luxury. I kite alone a good 90% of the time. The beach is down the street from me about half a mile. In order to kite with all these helpers, I have to drive about 45 minutes. I only do that if wind falls on one of the Saturdays I don't work, which is rare. I don't mind the drive then because that place is epic. It has 360 degrees of kite-ability, and knee-deep buttery smooth water for miles. The launches are pretty small, and on a good day we have 30 kiters sharing some pretty small launch sites. There is about an even ratio of people rigging in all the various methods, and there are no spontaneous fistfights, or even dirty looks if people cross lines a little. Most people are too stoked to be kiting and could give two shits if they have to fish their lines out from under someone else if they land on them. I mean come on, its not like the lines are 300 feet long or anything.

Most days I don't get to kite there. I have to share a beach with Canadian tourists who all ask the same questions:

Q: It sure must be a workout! You must have a lot of upper body strength!
A: Not really, it's all in the harness.

Q: Don't you worry about sharks?
A: No. They are everywhere around us and doing what they have been doing for 400 million years, eating fish and making baby sharks.

Q: Is it fast?!
A: No, the space shuttle is much faster.

Then they wander off and take pictures.

I drag-launch solo with no problems, and virtually zero kite wear. I launch off medium grit sand, and there really aren't any razor blades mixed in there. If you are drag launching off rip-rap lined with broken glass, sharpened rebar and volcanic flowstones, you might have some leading edge wear.

I have never had a brown-shorts scenario unfold in a drag launch, and if I did, I would throw my release and start over.


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 Post subject: Re: Laying out lines: Upwind or Downwind?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:42 am 
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Thanks guys... good info. I did a self launch from the x-wind rig set up once and the kite slid a bit, caught some wind and tumbled over itself once, then I grabbed the line and she went up. Prob would of been fine if I had just recognized it 1/2 second sooner and would of been clean. I didn't get pulled or dragged or anything. I did, however, get some odd looks from oiled up tourists on the beach. But good to know that a bit of a drag or slide is normal.


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 Post subject: Re: Laying out lines: Upwind or Downwind?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:14 am 
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Location: Venice, Florida
GregWoj wrote:
Thanks guys... good info. I did a self launch from the x-wind rig set up once and the kite slid a bit, caught some wind and tumbled over itself once, then I grabbed the line and she went up. Prob would of been fine if I had just recognized it 1/2 second sooner and would of been clean. I didn't get pulled or dragged or anything. I did, however, get some odd looks from oiled up tourists on the beach. But good to know that a bit of a drag or slide is normal.


You were too far to the side to launch. You start more upwind, at about halfway between crosswind, and upwind. Once the kite has caught a little wind and fills, you walk toward crosswind while pulling the bar on the side you want to rise. Keep in mind, if the kite is sheeted out and the bar pushed out, you can hold the kite straight downwind, with no problem. You wont go flying unless the kite launches from that position, which is impossible if the leading edge is facing the ground. Watch that Cab video a couple times. His launch would have been smoother if he walked a little to his left as he was rotating the kite.


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