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 Post subject: Re: Bladder Twist
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:31 am 
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GregK wrote:
The problem with inserting a LE bladder by pulling the end of the bladder in with line is you rely on a triangle of tension between the edges of the accordion pile of bladder going in and one single point at the tip of the bladder, which provides very little rotational control of the tip as it travels down the LE pocket.

The solution is to use a thin, flat ( about 2 - 3 cm wide - a little narrower than the opening at the pocket's tip ) and long ( about 40 cm ) tool ( plastic or stiff cardboard ) onto which the tip of the bladder is fixed securely to feed the tip along the LE pocket and pull the bladder past the zipper and into the pocket.

You hold the flat tool during the entire movement, so you can feel its orientation through the fabric, control it and avoid any tip rotation.

I've been using this kind of tool for over two years now with 100% success. LE bladder twists from insertion are eliminated.



Picture?

Go check my bladders next time I'm out!!


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 Post subject: Re: Bladder Twist
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:51 am 
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Westozzy wrote:
GregK wrote:
The problem with inserting a LE bladder by pulling the end of the bladder in with line is you rely on a triangle of tension between the edges of the accordion pile of bladder going in and one single point at the tip of the bladder, which provides very little rotational control of the tip as it travels down the LE pocket.

The solution is to use a thin, flat ( about 2 - 3 cm wide - a little narrower than the opening at the pocket's tip ) and long ( about 40 cm ) tool ( plastic or stiff cardboard ) onto which the tip of the bladder is fixed securely to feed the tip along the LE pocket and pull the bladder past the zipper and into the pocket.

You hold the flat tool during the entire movement, so you can feel its orientation through the fabric, control it and avoid any tip rotation.

I've been using this kind of tool for over two years now with 100% success. LE bladder twists from insertion are eliminated.



Picture?

Go check my bladders next time I'm out!!


Video?
I've done it myself using a piece of cardboard taped to the end of the bladder. You can fold it over when you get to the end to get it out. Just make sure you unfold it again the correct way. You need the cardboard to be stiff enough so you can shuffle it through the LE 6" at a time.

On my Crossbow, the seam of the bladder should have lined up with the seam of the LE but I guess you can check from the valves on the bladder which way you should flatten the LE so the valves are going to line up with their openings in the LE.
I guess you could draw straight lines between the valves on the bladder if you could see through the LE to help find them.



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 Post subject: Re: Bladder Twist
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:26 pm 
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Peter_Frank wrote:
Interesting points indeed.

But I think most of you are missing the original posters point here....

You DONT want to take your bladder out, if not needed.
Especially on one pump kites, you also have to dismantle the whole thing at every strut - but even the feat of pulling a single pump bladder out and put it in, is not just something you do in a few minutes (as you also need a huge amount of space - not easy to find, or a helper)

So switchkites shows us a (not known for me at least), way to correct slightly twisted bladders easily and on the spot :thumb:

This is priceless information IMO, great :naughty:

As we all know, sometimes "straight" bladders can get a bit twisted suddenly, even without having had the bladder out :roll:

Good post, thanks :D

8) Peter

I have once read somewhere, that with the big deflation valve now adays, you have to be carefull by twisting them open and let the air escape in one time, this might get your bladder twisted a bit..not sure if that is trhe case, but I let my air aout in a "gentle way"
Dude :cool2:


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 Post subject: Re: Bladder Twist
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:33 pm 
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Location: Comox, BC
Apologies to the OP for the thread drift, definitely a good skill to have to fix a slight twist without having to pull the bladder.
The connection with my post is how to avoid twists during installation. Sometimes they just happen on their own, but more often it's caused by a slight twist during installation.

Here's a picture of the LEBI ( Leading Edge Bladder Insertion ) tool, made from 1/8-inch ( 3mm ) thick Lexan ( polycarbonate ), both bare and with a bladder loaded on the tool. Small screw head and a loop of bungie to hold the bladder in place, have also used Velcro near the screw head to secure the bladder on a wider version. The width shown will pass through the narrow tip openings of North kites, even a tiny 6m. Note the rounded edges, nothing sharp on it to damage the bladder.
Image
How it works - ever used a big blunt needle to fish the draw-string back though the pocket around the top of your board-shorts ? Same bunch-and-pull motion, just now the needle is flat and you want to keep it steady with no rotations as you work it down one side of the LE pocket, easily done if you keep at least one hand on the tool at all times.

That said, I often work alone and sometimes have to move from the tool to the zipper on the kite's LE to get a one-pump valve past the zipper. I just take care to lay the LEBI down flat, remember the spot where it is, and pick it up carefully when I return. I used to use a pinch clamp to ensure it didn't move on me, but with care not to disturb the kite very much, it's not really necessary.

Added bonus of using an insertion tool, when removing a LE bladder, just disconnect valves and pull it out, no messing around with pull chords, so it's easier on both the removal and the installation.


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 Post subject: Re: Bladder Twist
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:50 pm 
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BADASS!!!!!!!
:fck: :flyaway:


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 Post subject: Re: Bladder Twist
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:02 pm 
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You are right Greg - it also requires less space this way, so a small apartment can be used :thumb:

If on your own, you have to pull the bladder with a line round door knobs or similar, and you need a huge room for this :o

Not everybody got a garden or open space where it is safe to handle a bladder - during this maybe "long" time it can take.

8) Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Bladder Twist
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:15 pm 
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Ever pull a LE bladder past a sharp bend in the pocket, like some kites have at the wingtip, and you just know it took a twist ( like the kite in the OP's video ) ?

Using a LEBI you can just shuffle past that sharp bend keeping total control of the bladder as you go, not a problem.

If you install a LE bladder with a LEBI, you'll never go back to the pull-chord method.


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 Post subject: Re: Bladder Twist
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:06 pm 
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Nice one ronnie and GregK.

:thumb:

Makes one wonder how they do this at the factory. Anybody here ever witnessed it who can tell the story?

Whenever I have to stick my hand thru the LE zipper to make the final adjustments of the valves, which is sometimes almost impossible, I grumble to myself "that these zipper openings were intended for Asia hands" Asian people are very good with their hands without question.


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 Post subject: Re: Bladder Twist
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:21 pm 
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robertovillate wrote:
Makes one wonder how they do this at the factory. Anybody here ever witnessed it who can tell the story?


We are using a 2m long rectangular flexible batten with a hook on one side. This method is fast and it is impossible to twist the bladder. Since most customers do not have access to old windsurfing battens we recommend using a broom stick and coat hanger when installing leading edge bladders. It works just as good but you need to pay a bit more attention not to twist the broom stick while pulling through.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=731eHDjC-4g


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 Post subject: Re: Bladder Twist
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:36 am 
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I'm sorry....really?

I admit the new switch element looks good to me (for what its worth)...
But at the same time why would anyone recommend sticking a coat hanger inside a LE...
:peng:


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