well BWD, i see it again, if you don't understand your opponent try to discredit him. this was seen too many times here on the forum. mostly from the brand affiliated posters, but sometimes from ordinary posters too. i'd like to call them the stockholm syndrome kite owners. it is when you bought the kite, and even if you are not totally satisfied with it, you are still keeping to praise it! but whatever...BWD wrote:it's a lot more likely that their LE and canopy shaping strategies didn't scale easily to 15m+.i bet rrd didn't make bigger sizes because they couldn't manage heavy fluttering and impossible waterlaunch...
Look at what the rrd and the trip have in common, contrast against the cloud and airush zero:
AR and canopy shape, LE size, bridle configuration tell the story.
By the way, if your kite is flapping, sheet in.
If you are a flyweight you don't need a 17 anyway (over 10 knots).
Or to put it another way, grow a pair or rig down to the appropriate size kite.
Riding all the time with a sheeted out kite is like riding the clutch in a car, it doesn't smell right after a while, struts or no struts!
BWD wrote:Eree sorry not trying to offend but I do disagree with what you wrote.
You might remember I also disagree with some (negative) stuff you wrote about other kites.
For me the relaunch on the clouds is no problem, like I said, and the videos show.
fly one if you don't believe it.
If you weigh 109 I am sure you would not have a lot of fluttering - you could hold the power. And I guess you know how to sheet in and fly a kite properly.
If you try, with your size you might distort the canopy, but I think 109 kg could distort almost any kite - if you try.
There is a different person - who trolls the strut less threads- I think maybe doesn't weigh so much - that is who might be Flyweight.
Anyway most of what I write is intended to be mainly topical not about another forum poster.
I am not calling you beginner or expert or kite designers buddy, and no I don't know who passes you kites to see if you can buckle them, if anybody, but that's your business not mine.
About weight and the strutless kites: I think being too small for the kite is a bigger problem, at least the cloud because it has a limited top end compared to other same size kites.
I don't have any syndrome about kites, I just like trying different ones. I have written about what I think is good and bad about strutless. It's true I do argue with those who just diss them and say things I think aren't true though.
Maybe I will try another brm or rrd strutless or maybe next time I'll try something else.
I might not try a 9m c kite in 33 knots again soon, that is what I tried last week and I would rather have a delta or some smaller SLE next time it is 30+ . On the other hand a 5m cloud might have been fun but a 7 with struts and bridle is what I wanted for that session. Getting old maybe.
So one more thing, might as well say it here as any related thread, exception to what I rather write about, this is about forum members:
It's funny that the other "strutless hater" and now also eree, are guys who both seem to have dropped hints that they are connected and have flown lots of kites and maybe prototypes. could be BS but maybe they really are affiliated to some designers, some of the ones that have not been able to make a decent strutless kite yet.
And no paff that post by eree was not so well put.
BWD wrote:Well, I thought your post was interesting Gigi but had no comment.
I don't really study aerodynamics in detail with computer analysis, so no feedback on that side of things from me! Until now...
So, I have to raise the question though, does the computer model a kite flying around the window and turning, or just in a steady state like "parked" in a wind tunnel?
I suspect the analysis is more of a simple steady state but maybe I'm wrong?
Not only changing AOA but also twist and yaw may be important in seeing how kites really work.
Also to consider struts, how does the computer consider the disturbances of air under the intrados by the struts as the kite yaws, turns and twists?
My guess is that maybe it doesn't, unless it is a very nice computer model that has routines developed from empirical live measurement of kites flying and turning.
The other thing I wonder if normal aerodynamic modeling accounts for is canopy luffing. This seems like a complicated relationship of mechanics and aero depending on profile, velocity, kite materials, Reynolds numbers and spring constants, etc.
Does the model automatically move the kite back in the window at low AOA for luffing strut less? Because that is what happens as you know I guess from your experience, and it's opposite for strutted kites. Or if you have to place it in the window manually, how to you know you are placing it correctly? How else might this violate assumptions of the model?
How do you consider the time element in how long it takes any disturbance created by struts to resolve as kites turn and twist? Do kites underperform the models' predictions? Could it be because of factors such as this?
There could be a millionth technical questions about modeling kite performance, maybe some have answers already?
Sorry if the questions I mention are silly...
What I am most curious to ask though, is how are your current 2 strut kites?
Would you like to show pictures or videos somewhere?
I always like to see the videos and things you post here, when you have time, it can be educational!
By the way sorry to OP and rrd guys for being way OT