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 Post subject: Re: Any wave advice for the infrequent rider,
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:15 pm 
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I would like to add to Plummet's comments. Coming from a windsurfing wavesailing background I am enjoying a similar riding style but with a strapped surfboard. I want to surf and boost. Actually I learned kitesurfing on mutants and rode them for a long time (the old Naish models). But I prefer a surfboard for the riding feel especially on the wave and in carves.

Mastering the jibe is probably a bit more difficult than strapless because you have to fiddle with the straps.
But especially if you do not ride the surfboard that often it will give you more fun quicker because it is easier to control.
I think strapless looks great if somebody really good does it but it takes a lot of training to get to that level. I personally do not have that much time and I enjoy doing those tweaked Table Tops over a ramp just too much.
However, the wave TT/Mutant is good option as well especially in small waves. I rediscovered it for myself as I got a new TT to work on some aspects of my jumping before translating it onto the surfboard. But I still want to carve nicely in between and shred a small wave here and there. It is a Shinn Speedball, btw.

Last but not least, the old wavesailing advice. Going out, try to hit the wave at a 90 degree angle. So in onshore conditions gather speed, carve into the wind, put weight onto the tail and once you got over the wave go more downwind again. You can cross pretty big white water like that.


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 Post subject: Re: Any wave advice for the infrequent rider,
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:51 pm 
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search shin speedball, Axis Twinwave, ocean rodeo mako 150.

3 very worthy wave TT/mutant options.

Search out vids of Franz Olry. He seems to be the man when it comes to TT wave riding.

https://vimeo.com/35258737


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 Post subject: Re: Any wave advice for the infrequent rider,
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:33 pm 
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Notice the original date of this post and you will see how infrequent a wave rider I am.

Just got back from a work trip near OBX where I got a few days in waves. I decided to take Plummet's advice, and did not even take a surfboard with me. I used my Underground FLX 148 x 46 which actually worked fine. What I discovered was that not being very familiar with riding waves combined with equally limited surfboard experience was not the way to go for me. Being on the twintip where I was comfortable really let me get out and explore the waves and how to ride in them. I am sure I will go back to the surfboard at some point, but I think the next few times I get to ride waves will be on a twintip to get more experience.

Big shore break was my major issue this time. One day I was able to get out fairly easily in head high waves, but the next day, in slightly smaller waves, the break (mush after the wave crested) seemed to be higher with fewer gaps. This combined with lower winds made it very hard to get over as it would mash me if I tried to power through it, and with the lower wind I had trouble jumping on top of it. I got rolled pretty good one time and got to experience coming to the surface of the water only to discover that my kite was completely submerged. I did not expect that. After a little drag, it popped back up and all was good.

Lots of fun and I am glad I have taken good advice from the forum and expanded my kiteboarding out of the flat water.


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 Post subject: Re: Any wave advice for the infrequent rider,
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:45 pm 
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Switching from twintip to trying to learn strapless is quite a big difference. You might consider putting the straps on your surfboard for a bit. The straps on your surfboard will let you hold more power from the kite and will also let you jump waves. Riding without straps requires more finesse to get over waves. It is also harder to hold a lot of kite power, so you'll need to learn to ride with less kite. Once you decide you're ready to give strapless another go, here are a few tips for getting over waves (these tips are for side on/off or sideshore - onshore is a tiny bit different):
- slow down as the wave approaches. If you have too much speed, you might pull yourself off the back of the wave into the air and crash.
- raise your kite as you go up the wave and give the kite a small power stroke as you go down the back of a wave
- point the board downwind a bit as you cross the wave. Once you're off it, resume your direction. This will help you get over steeper waves.
- don't try to cross waves that are too close to breaking if you can avoid it. If you have to do it, cut hard upwind as you go up the wave, and raise the kite. As you come down the back of the wave, point your board downwind and do a strong power stroke.
- crossing the white water of a broken wave is kind of the same as crossing a small wave. For small white water, you can prejump and hold all your speed if you wish.

Getting out through onshore wind and waves is a bit more work, because you're trying to go upwind through the break. I find it helpful to have a bit more power in the kite than side shore. In side shore conditions, I ride with just enough power to get me upwind. Onshore, a little more kite will help. Other than that, most of the above tips apply, but you won't need to slow down as much or raise and lower the kite as much.

As for becoming proficient at riding a surfboard, you can learn that without waves. I learned to do it in choppy bay water. It's worth doing that before getting out into the surf. Things that are worth learning:
- s turns, moving the kite across the window as you turn. As others have said, turn the kite, then the board
- s turns, without moving the kite across the window
- toe side
- transitions: turn to toeside then switch your feet is easiest (I found it easier, anyway).
- jibes. Useful for switching directions without losing ground.
- transitions: switch your feet to toeside, then turn the board back to heelside.

Some people learn to do all this riding only in their natural stance. I think it is worth learning to do both goofy and regular, regardless of your wind and wave setup. That way you can ride waves left and right, facing the wave or not. Personally, I find it more natural to always be facing the wave, hence why I make sure my goofy riding is solid. The sideshore riding we have here is almost all rights with NW wind, but for the few S wind sessions, riding left for a change is really fun. I find it is great to have options rather than ride only in my dominant stance.

Hope this helps!


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 Post subject: Re: Any wave advice for the infrequent rider,
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:44 pm 
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Sweet. Its good that you had some fun.
If its possible look for cross on, cross shore conditions. Those are best wind angles. Even better if you can find a point break.

Also if you are getting put through the washing machine and the kite goes down in big wave and it starts to pull you. Think about pulling the safety or even punching out completely.


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 Post subject: Re: Any wave advice for the infrequent rider,
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:16 pm 
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plummet wrote:
Also if you are getting put through the washing machine and the kite goes down in big wave and it starts to pull you. Think about pulling the safety or even punching out completely.

Amen to this. Really good piece of advice for the waves. I ride with a bar with huge throw for massive depower and no leash so that that I have a single safety release that just releases the kite. I don't see the point of flagging in the waves. If you flag the kite, the chances of getting the kite back in the air before a wave hits it are really small. If your kite gets tumbled by a wave, it's common for line twists to send you in to the beach. But the biggest reason to punch out is to prevent being dragged underwater by the kite. Not pulling a person while being hit by a wave will increase the chances of survival of the kite. And if I start swimming or paddling back in when I release the kite, I always get back in before the kite.


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 Post subject: Re: Any wave advice for the infrequent rider,
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:58 pm 
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Can I ask what kind of jibes you do on flat water most of the time?

From what I gather you are probably just switching the kite direction during your jibes. Instead of that I would suggest you get used to downlooping your jibes. This allows a more natural surf style carve through the jibe. It allows you go jibe faster overall and be travelling with the wave while doing the transition instead of it hitting you.

Be aware that you need to have the right size kite to do downloop jibes, too much kite and you will be pulled right off your board.

Also no mention of tacks, tacks are handy to have available too because:
- they have to be fast, you can't do them slow
- they don't lose any ground
- when you fall on a tack often you fall upwind of your board and you can just put your feet back on and ride away

Tacks are much harder than jibes though, so lots of practice to do on flat water. When I first started riding a surfboard it didn't take me long to learn to do basic jibes but downlooped jibes and then tacks have taken a long time to master.

Do not attempt to do "duck tacks" though, as while they are a bit more fluid than a regular tack they are much harder and if you fall on them you end up way down wind of your board.


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 Post subject: Re: Any wave advice for the infrequent rider,
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:40 pm 
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cleepa wrote:
plummet wrote:
Also if you are getting put through the washing machine and the kite goes down in big wave and it starts to pull you. Think about pulling the safety or even punching out completely.

Amen to this. Really good piece of advice for the waves. I ride with a bar with huge throw for massive depower and no leash so that that I have a single safety release that just releases the kite. I don't see the point of flagging in the waves. If you flag the kite, the chances of getting the kite back in the air before a wave hits it are really small. If your kite gets tumbled by a wave, it's common for line twists to send you in to the beach. But the biggest reason to punch out is to prevent being dragged underwater by the kite. Not pulling a person while being hit by a wave will increase the chances of survival of the kite. And if I start swimming or paddling back in when I release the kite, I always get back in before the kite.


Thanks. That is a really good safety point. I had read one of Plummet's posts about still being pulled by the flag line when the kite was in the wave, so I was prepared to let it all go. In this case I was lucky enough to know that I was close to shore so I took the drag for a bit knowing the kite would shortly be on shore. I will be ready to let the whole thing go if this gets too bad.


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 Post subject: Re: Any wave advice for the infrequent rider,
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:48 pm 
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I keep the flag out line attached and punch out if neccessary.

There are times when letting the kite go is more dangerous than flagging it out. My example from yesterday is a good one. I had a line breakage, which happened to be my flag out line. It ment i had to ditch the kite and swim for 40 mins. Had i been able to flag it out I could have self rescued in a fraction of the time.


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 Post subject: Re: Any wave advice for the infrequent rider,
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:49 pm 
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Slappysan wrote:
Can I ask what kind of jibes you do on flat water most of the time?

From what I gather you are probably just switching the kite direction during your jibes. Instead of that I would suggest you get used to downlooping your jibes. This allows a more natural surf style carve through the jibe. It allows you go jibe faster overall and be travelling with the wave while doing the transition instead of it hitting you.



I can and do use downloop jibes. I can see how that is a better way to transition on the wave face keeping it from slacking the lines. I fell for that a few times letting the wave push me to the kite ending up with too much slack in the lines. I cannot tack yet on a surfboard but I can see the advantage in it.


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