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 Post subject: Re: 12m - 13m size dilemma for waves
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 6:29 pm 
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Location: Bath, UK
Al_Kiter wrote:
Cool it man! :D I was replying to the original poster (the one that wrote he weighs 75kg).

Ah, ok . .. Fair point :oops: :lol:

Al_Kiter wrote:
But, by the way, I read something about you using a TT with your 9m, so before you trash other people's comments, have YOU tried using a high volume board for light wind waveriding?

In your case I would go for something over 22'' wide and over 40 liters. Perhaps you too will find that it's way more fun than a TT and a 12m kite.


I do have a 6'3" Circle one board, followed by a 5'9" F-One signature and a Liquid Force fish :P
Have just sold my 5'8" Airush Choptop as it didn't have enough volume for general riding and had too much for higher wind riding.


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 Post subject: Re: 12m - 13m size dilemma for waves
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 8:46 am 
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In that kind of wind speed I'm actually using a Rally 12 2014, and I'm 95 kg. So a 10 Rally should be able to keep you going and will not get you overpowered for a while.

From 16 knots I already use a Rally 8 (with a wide retro fish).


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 Post subject: Re: 12m - 13m size dilemma for waves
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 5:37 pm 
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Just a thought.....I find the 2014 Rally more powerful and slower than 2011/12. Someone laid old on top of new and there was more material in new. You may just have a bigger kite up than you think, despite the 12 written on it.


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 Post subject: Re: 12m - 13m size dilemma for waves
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 8:50 pm 
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magic%20Ed wrote:
In that kind of wind speed I'm actually using a Rally 12 2014, and I'm 95 kg. So a 10 Rally should be able to keep you going and will not get you overpowered for a while.
I am 80 kg and the Rally 10 2014 is my biggest kite and together with my 5.8 Celeritas works fine in the conditions you describe.


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 Post subject: Re: 12m - 13m size dilemma for waves
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 9:18 pm 
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The thing is, about waveriding (DTL which in most eyes is the only thing counting) in light wind, that many only has a 9 or 10m2 as their biggest size.

Then some dont ride in lighter wind, where these sizes are not sufficient.
Also, in many countries/spots, waves do not build much if lower wind (not ground swell).

The major difference between say a 10 and a 12m2 in marginal winds, is:

The 12 might be able to get you going upwind, where the 10 will not...
BUT, you can still ride waves a lot better with the 10 than the 12, and it will generate at least the same power, maybe even more because it turns way better and more efficient when going DTL - and drifts better too.
So even when too light wind to go upwind with the 10, many takes a downwinder on the 10 because it is much better and more fun than riding with a 12m2 :thumb:

Last but not least, some ride with a 12m2 so possible to stay and go upwind (at some spots the only way) - this is the most difficult way of riding (some will say it does not work also, and somewhat correct), but can be fun and challenging sometimes too.
Not many does this though, but as said, can be fun now and then too.


So there are many reasons why 9-10m2 is the typical max size used in waves (for the average rider weight) :naughty:


Having said that - I sometimes ride with bigger kites in waves too myself and find it okay fun, but this is definitely not the "norm" around the world, thats for sure.

As some mentioned - a bigger board is a great way to do it !

8) Peter


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 Post subject: Re: 12m - 13m size dilemma for waves
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 12:28 pm 
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We have just returned from a trip to Hatteras, whilst there we had one or two marginal days of wind.

Fortunately we had our 12m Epic Surf with us (along with many other demo kites from Dimitri/Epic)which gave us the chance to try it in light winds in the waves. I'd not had a chance to try it here in the UK before this trip and up until now wold never consider anything above 9m for waves...(I spend at least 90% of my time on a directional surfboard)

Three of us ended up sharing the 12m Surf even though we had other bigger kites and all of us could not believe how well it went in the very light winds that day...it really did feel like a much smaller kite poss 9m but pulled equiv. maybe even to the 13m LTD I thought? In fact it was some time into my go on the kite that I remembered it was a 12m...I very rarely use bigger than a 9m (as SonnyRider knows) The 13m LTD is a pretty powerful kite as are all the Epic Renegades, but the 12m is so much more nimble and will more importantly turn on it's axis and you have the ability to turn the power completely off when needed. In the past I would simply have used a 9m with my wider fish board but this kite will deffo give me much more of a lower end.
I obviously need to try the 12m Surf some more but we were all genuinely impressed.

We also had a guy on the trip who was a beginner who totally fell in love with the 12m Surf, preferring it to all the other kites he tested and was flying up wind on it...his first time ever upwind!!
He mentioned about being able to turn on and off the power when he needed..ideal for his level of riding.

Obviously I'm biased (disclaimer Epic dealer) BUT I honestly believe Epic have a truly awesome kite in the SURF.....I've used the 5m & 8m a lot and now can't wait for more light wind sessions on the 12m. Later in the trip we had some pretty strong DTL days which I used the 5m and Dimitri was on the 8m...(how on earth he held onto it those winds I'll never know although he did use the short lines also provided)

More pics on the thread : viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2379963&start=350

SonnyRider I know you have a strong allegiance to Airush (which we also love) but you really should do yourself a favour and just try it. :thumb:

Image


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 Post subject: Re: 12m - 13m size dilemma for waves
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 12:51 pm 
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Peter_Frank wrote:
The thing is, about waveriding (DTL which in most eyes is the only thing counting) in light wind, that many only has a 9 or 10m2 as their biggest size.



I pitty people that are so closed minded they can't get passed the need to constantly ride dtl in waves.

There is so much more to waves that just trying to be a surfer.

I'm really enjoying my 145x45 coffin lid TT finless In the waves 12-16 knots. pair that with an efficient 13m ozone edge if makes for a sublime light wind wave session. Can I dtl on a big door finless flying as racekite??? yes I can. Is it the same feeling as surfing on a surfboard>? No. But it is weirdly blissfull and soooooo smooth screaming down a wave face finless.


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 Post subject: Re: 12m - 13m size dilemma for waves
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 1:31 pm 
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windsuks wrote:
SonnyRider I know you have a strong allegiance to Airush (which we also love) but you really should do yourself a favour and just try it. :thumb:


Hmmmm . . . a strong allegiance to Airush?
I (we) have 99% airush kites now. Why? Because we (GF & I) have found they work very well for us and our style. We are not fans of the Delta style, As you well know :wink:

I would like to try your 12m for sure. It's a shame you didn't have one when we were looking for a 12m last september it could've been a good contender. But we're not in the market for a 12 now :)

Will be good to catch up tho' :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: 12m - 13m size dilemma for waves
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 3:27 pm 
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Yeh it was shame it wasn't ready last September but they are not released every year to a given date..hence the 4G etc

Surely 99% is a strong bond?

No probs. though and certainly do hope to catch you on the water soon. :thumb:

ps I'm aware your not in the market anymore for a 12m but thought you may be interested in trying the Surf for comparison anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: 12m - 13m size dilemma for waves
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 5:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:12 am
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Location: Germany
The 10 m² Cloud (C1) from BRM could be a solution (however, hardly available any more now).
Its low end is comparable to a strutted 12 m² kite (the North Neo, to be precise here), but it is flying very fast / very fast turning, like many 9 m² or even smaller strutted kites.

I´ve had the 10 m Cloud for some time and was stunned by the low end performance and turning speed, stability in the air at low wind.
The downsides for me have been high bar forces (steering and keeping the bar pulled in) and a relatively limited high end.

A 10 m² Bandit 7 is now substituting the Cloud - and I´m unhappy with the Bandit much more than with the Cloud :cry: Bandit is almost as fast as the Cloud, but comparably gruntless, and needs significantly more wind to stay in the sky.


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