I have been looking for a big kite that can turn fast in the waves and have had my eye on the new Epic Surf 12m. I took Dimitri up on his offer to demo it and I simply emailed him today and told him there was some wind coming. An hour later I've got a tracking number
In listening to the conditions coming and the riders I ride with he recommended I also try the 13m Renegade. So 2 brand new kites complete are on their way. I've heard about this level of customer service on the KITEFORUM about EPIC but this blows me away.
I'll certainly post my experiences on these kites. Any other riders have experience on these kites?
I'm interested in the pivotal turning of the Surf 12m as I need a fast turning kite in the onshore lake conditions I ride in. i.e. - big rollers… Also psyched to see if this Renegade can jump...
I got the surf got 8 meter and really like what I have seen from it so far. Only had it up once in small waves and very light and variable wind. It was surprisingly stable and responsive and as light as the wind was I wouldn't normally be on a kite that small, but I have been excited to try it. In that short experience I really think im gonna love it. So, I am waiting for a little more waves and wind to give a full opinion. I think I will need to get the 12 soon too.
I love my 13 renegade. I'm not a wa e rider, so I can't comment on that aspect, but the 13 has great low end, really easy rig and ride and is a great light wind kite, but also has great high end range. The jumps are quite predictable, but the kite is really forgiving so its a LOT of fun. Let us know what you think!
Got 2 days in on the SURF 12m and RENEGADE 13m. One day was light (11-15mph) and the 2nd was heavier (15-25mph). The SURF 12m was the one kite I felt covered it all. The Renegade 13m LTD could be my light wind kite. It saved the 1st day into a "park and ride" and occasional boost day. In the lulls I moved the SURF kite to generate the power I needed. I'm a finesse kiter and the SURF 12m fits me. I like flying kites! The Renegade on day 2 was an animal. Other guys who like power were riding it and boosting big long floaty jumps.
SURF 12m - Presentation in bag - top notch. Construction - tough and top notch. Graphics and look in the air - "cool, shaped like a falcon". New inflate valve, increased flow - loved it, can't see not having it. Extra 18m lines in bag, awesome. I flew on the standard 22m lines. Came ready to fly on factory knots. Dimitri explained that after 5-10 hours use the lines would stretch and standard tuning/trimming would apply. But since everything was brand new it was ready to go.
3 words: "Playful", "Behaved", "Rangy". Turns extremely fast and feels smaller than it really is. Does not pull you out of your shoes. Reacts to the rider input quickly and actually parks and rides incredibly well. Creates apparent wind better than any other large kite I've been on. Relaunch is very easy. I can see why this kite would be perfect for a beginner. And then as the beginner progresses it can become his/her wave kite. I can't stop thinking how great this kite fits with my style of wave kiting. I felt so comfortable on it because I could place myself anywhere in the surf quickly. I have always been a hooked in wave guy. But this kite was so comfortable that I depowered a bit and unhooked for the 1st time! Having read my "Unhooking" thread several times and watching videos I just went and did it. This kite inspires confidence because it is so well behaved! This fits into that category of kites that are truly "unique".
The new EPIC bar is rock solid and features long depower throw and the sliding stopper to limit throw - which I use when the wind is steady or when I want a narrow throw. Depower and power up is accomplished through a ring and strap system that is easy to use. I adjusted many times during day 2 since the wind went from 15-25 and I was unhooking for the 1st time.
This kite favors fast pivotal turns and quick movements, not loops, to generate power. When you're on the wave with strong forward energy you just sheet out and enjoy, it is not twitchy - only waiting for input. Anybody that wants a quick reactive yet stable kite this is your kite. All the guys I kite with are "ride upwind and boost" type guys. I expected them to come in and say "doesn't boost, don't want it". They came in and said "love it". All of them had never seem something this big so reactive. I was able to jump on day 2 because the wind was strong but it is not a boosting kite with loads of hang time. But I had fun on the way out popping off of waves. Get the Screamer for the big jumps!
Dimitri had this kite last May at the KittyHawk Demo Days and would not let anyone ride it until he and Momi had it tweaked to perfection. Here we are a year later and this kite is ready folks.
Which had more low end power the Surf 12 or the Renegade 13M? I assume from your post that the R13 has more. Surf 12M way better upwind, I would guess. Relaunch on both are damn near immediate, yes? More top end range on the Surf 12?
Hello Mr. markchatwin and thank you for taking the time writing your review on the SURF 12 and RENEGADE 13 kites. As you saw from testing them, both of these kites are so different from each other. It all depends what you are looking for. Also if you want the SURF 12 kite to be even faster and even more responsive, then you should try to fly it on the (18 meter lines) that comes with the SURF 12 kite inside its bag. Also (15 to 25 mph) is actually too much for the SURF 12 kite because I can ride the SURF 5 in (18 to 25 mph) no problem on a surf board of course. But personally the SURF 8 is the main kite I use 80% of the time when I venture in the waves. But that is because of the good conditions we have here on the Outer Banks NC "USA". Maybe it will be a good idea to send you also the SURF 8 so you can get an idea of what I am talking about.
Your review has me amped to buy the 12. I have the 8 and really like it. Just a little more saving and I will be getting the 12 also.
Hello CRD, Personally I think you are fine having just the SURF 8 kite. No need to invest on the SURF 12 kite especially since you leave in a place where the wind is very consistent. So in few words you can use your SURF 8 with your surf board in (13 to 17 knots) if you are doing a down winder in the waves. And you can use the SURF 8 in (15 to 35 knots) if you plan to kite on the same spot. But if you plan to kite in (11 to 18 knots) and stay on the same spot, then yes the SURF 12 will be a good idea.
Yes the Renegade 13m has more bottom end. The SURF 12m has more top end. For some reason I would say yes to a bit more upwind push on the SURF 12m. As I was riding it I kept thinking "WOW this kite kinda does it all - I'm upwind easy, I'm making very fast turns, I'm in the waves, I'm unhooking". Relaunch was easy on both