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 Post subject: Re: Liquid force havoc 2007
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:22 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:34 am
Posts: 65
Location: Rhodes Greece
I still have 2 07 Havocs.8m and 12m. Didnt like them very much. still have them as spares for me or other people i know. they aren't powerfull for their size, but still you can learn if you make them fly properly. i had the exact same issue as you although my bar is different than the one you have in the picture. in any case i solved the problem by adding pig tails to the front lines and attaching the back lines to the closest knot on the kite. then it was pretty much ok with the strap on full power. but then again i had a different bar. ask someone who knows how a kite should fly to tune/trim it for you. and take lesson from someone who cares.


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 Post subject: Re: Liquid force havoc 2007
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:30 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:27 am
Posts: 2382
Location: Ford Lake, Michigan
add about 1 or 2 inches to the center line connection point (near the pulley on the bridle), this improves turning speed and responsiveness, then behind the pulley on the longest bridle line cut 6 inches that reduces rear line slack, and then add 4 inches to the end to balance it all out. Fly the kite after making all these mods and then fine tune the bridle, make sure you look at the kite and make sure it's not taco-ing. Yeah I know it's a lot of work but in the early years of supported leading edge kites they didnt know what they were doing. easiest if you are new to bridle mods is to just to buy a slightly newer kite, like two or three years later model

WARNING after making a bridle mod it can "death loop" if you get something wrong. Never test a new bridle mod in winds above 15 knots for the first time.


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 Post subject: Re: Liquid force havoc 2007
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:09 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:45 pm
Posts: 98
thats not the original front line section on the bar.....
not that it should matter, as long as the lengths are the same, I always had to set those things up on one of the top knots on the steering lines, to get rid of the slack.


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 Post subject: Re: Liquid force havoc 2007
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:41 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:51 pm
Posts: 15
Thanks for all the help. I will go to the beach today and see how it goes.


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 Post subject: Re: Liquid force havoc 2007
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:27 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:51 pm
Posts: 15
Went to the beach today, it was a holiday here in Portugal and in the weekend I could not tray the kite because of bad weather. I have flied the kite on the closest knot today and it was a little bit better but still think that it needs tweaking. If I look at the other people that are on the beach walking with the kite I see that they have there bar totally depowered and the kite stays flying nice above there heads. So if I tray that I still lose connection between me and the kite and the kite want to drop out of the sky.
I have now added another knot at the bar at a distance off 8 cm, so I shorten my backlines with 8 cm but I do not know if that is to much?
I will tray it next time when on the beach.

Thanks for all the help.


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 Post subject: Re: Liquid force havoc 2007
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:53 pm
Posts: 273
Location: Traverse City, MI
The '07 is difficult to fly (12m anyway)
Never keep it at the zenith. It can surge forward and overfly.
Steering isn't great when depowered.
Safety is antiquated.

Sorry man. I just don't want you to get hurt.


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 Post subject: Re: Liquid force havoc 2007
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:39 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:51 pm
Posts: 15
I have found a site where they are talking about tuning the kite and the funny thing is that the pictures are from a liquid force havoc from 2007.
http://www.progression.me/news/2011/07/ ... le-tuning/
They talk about Front & Back Lines Common Problems and on the second note you can read about: Front lines too short, back lines to long. The characteristics are exactly what I have with my kite even on the picture where you can see that the back tips of the kite are slightly pointing to the outside. On my kite it is even more pronounced. This problem is making me afraid because when I have the kite up I do not feel it and when I pull the bar in the kite is already falling out of the sky and in the middle of the fall it pics back up in the power zone.
I have only flied the kite between 1-3 and 11-9.

So next time I´am going to fly the kite with 8cm shorter back lines, I will begin with pulling the depower strap in and slightly give some more length to the front lines.

I had some help yesterday but I have been told that I had to train on the beach flying the kite but here on the forum and on video´s I have seen that the only thing that you do on the beach in launching the kite, learn to walk with it and then go into the water and learn body drag so you can feel the power of the kite without being hurt. The weight of our body and the drag of the water will act as counter balance. On the beach the only thing we have is our body and a hard landing on the sand.
I have seen many (beginners) doing S´s with the kite wile they are learning on the beach, yesterday there where 2 new students doing it, is that normal? One little mistake and you go flying Xmeters.

Thanks for all the help,
JJ


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 Post subject: Re: Liquid force havoc 2007
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:22 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:57 pm
Posts: 84
Location: Bath, UK
jsengxx wrote:
I had some help yesterday but I have been told that I had to train on the beach flying the kite but here on the forum and on video´s I have seen that the only thing that you do on the beach in launching the kite, learn to walk with it and then go into the water and learn body drag so you can feel the power of the kite without being hurt. The weight of our body and the drag of the water will act as counter balance. On the beach the only thing we have is our body and a hard landing on the sand.
I have seen many (beginners) doing S´s with the kite wile they are learning on the beach, yesterday there where 2 new students doing it, is that normal? One little mistake and you go flying Xmeters.

Thanks for all the help,
JJ



Yes, that is normal. Kitesurfing is 75 - 85% kite skills. Learn to respect the power and get a feel for when it comes in
it is easier to relaunch a crashed kite on the sand compared to the water in the early days

This is why we've all been saying have lessons, get trained and all will be fine.
Otherwise, it has the potential for a world of pain :roll:

When I was in Brazil a local instructor wouldn't take anyone out on the water until they had good kite control skills. He made them walk up & down the beach with the kite flying for several lessons first. Once he was happy with their skill level, he would then let them in the water for some body dragging

Lessons! get some :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: Liquid force havoc 2007
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:12 pm 
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Medium Poster

Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:59 pm
Posts: 81
Lessons? You don't need lessons. They're for suckers. No, what you need to do is continue to just wing it and hope for the best. What you see others doing is irrelevant. Do what feels right to you.

Definitely adjust your bridle line lengths. Silly manufacturer had it all screwed up anyway.

Then be sure to do all those figure 8's while on the beach. Really work it dude. You won't learn anything keeping your kite at 12.

Anything you overhear other instructors saying really isn't for you anyway. You've got skills bro. Just get out there and go for it!

And that 12m havoc? Sure it's a classic, but what is stopping you from shopping for the true classics? Get your self a nice two line kite with a pulley bar from 1998 or so. Those babies were absolutely cutting edge. Somebody's gotta have one lying around they'll sell you. Cheap too. What a crazy world we live in.

Cutting edge, advanced technology. Practically free.

Imagine how cool you will look dragging that museum piece onto the beach. Dude! What's the hold up?

Then you can post, like, 50 more times on here about how you'll be tweaking your awesome new (old) kite to make it sorta fly.

Yeah! Go for it!!


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 Post subject: Re: Liquid force havoc 2007
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:36 pm 
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Rare Poster

Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:51 pm
Posts: 15
Rando1994 wrote:
Lessons? You don't need lessons. They're for suckers. No, what you need to do is continue to just wing it and hope for the best. What you see others doing is irrelevant. Do what feels right to you.

Definitely adjust your bridle line lengths. Silly manufacturer had it all screwed up anyway.

Then be sure to do all those figure 8's while on the beach. Really work it dude. You won't learn anything keeping your kite at 12.

Anything you overhear other instructors saying really isn't for you anyway. You've got skills bro. Just get out there and go for it!

And that 12m havoc? Sure it's a classic, but what is stopping you from shopping for the true classics? Get your self a nice two line kite with a pulley bar from 1998 or so. Those babies were absolutely cutting edge. Somebody's gotta have one lying around they'll sell you. Cheap too. What a crazy world we live in.

Cutting edge, advanced technology. Practically free.

Imagine how cool you will look dragging that museum piece onto the beach. Dude! What's the hold up?

Then you can post, like, 50 more times on here about how you'll be tweaking your awesome new (old) kite to make it sorta fly.

Yeah! Go for it!!



If all of my writing is annoying you then do not read it!
I´am polite and not rude so please keep all the nonsense for yourself.

I want to thank every one that has helped me here with my issues.


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