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 Post subject: Kite sizes for hydrofoiling
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:37 pm 
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Location: Denmark
Hi

Just wanted to share "kitesize versus wind" experiences.

In marginal winds, really big kites, but not max kites, are preferred.

For me at average weight, that is a 13m2 high AR kite (using the Dyno right now).

Marginal winds is around 8 knots.

In "easy" winds, where all kites can hang, like 10 knots, a wave kite (lots of range and depower) between 9 and 11m2 works great.

In higher winds - when out with say a 7 or 8m2 wavekite in waves (waveboard of course), you can use almost the same size.

Why ?

Because the apparent wind contribution is marginal, the higher the wind.
AND, because you will feel more comfortable having a bit of a pull to lean against, for stability and when jibing (to make you weightless).

So yes, you CAN easily ride a 4 or 5m2 when using a 7 or 9m2 wavekite with a waveboard, but it does not feel that good.

Short story:

In marginal conditions, big kites like 13-15m2 works perfectly.

But as soon as the wind is up so "any" kite can hang in the air, much smaller kites seem to be preferred.

So in 10 knots, maybe up to 12, 9-11m2 works great.

When the wind increases, you still use a bit smaller kite, but not the same difference as in lower winds, is my experience.

I dont know why I am writing this, as experienced hydrofoilers knows this, and unexperienced have to learn by riding...

But maybe just sharing can add some new points ?

If you are racing, it is a totally different game, and using a big kite can be a huge advantage maybe...

But I am talking about "general" riding here, not racing as such :naughty:

8) PF


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 Post subject: Re: Kite sizes for hydrofoiling
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:06 pm 
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What year is your Dyno 13m?

Seems like most 13m and 14m kites are not designed to stay flying in as little wind as the 15m-19m kites are. With a foil though, there is now a way to get out in less than 10 knots on a 13m. I've seen a lot of people riding the Cabrinha velocity 13m in <10 knots, but the 13m Edge doesn't seem to be as good at hanging in the sky in <10 knots.


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 Post subject: Re: Kite sizes for hydrofoiling
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:45 pm 
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It is the classic 2011 Dyno.

But that is not the point...

The point is (do you hydrofoil yourself by the way ?), that with bigger sizes, you can not get more "punch" when you loop the kite, so the start up limit is the same.
But you WILL get way faster overpowered when apparent wind kicks in, and even more important, they are not as good for doing tricks and waveriding (turning easily).

And the amazing thing about hydrofoils when you get to know them, is that you can do EVERYTHING in almost no wind, being perfectly powered :thumb:

Where, with raceboards or similar, you always find that a tad more wind is more fun :roll:

Two completey different species... For raceboards 17 to 18m2 kites are needed :wink:

8) PF


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 Post subject: Re: Kite sizes for hydrofoiling
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:48 pm 
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Not yet! I'm looking to buy a hydrofoil and also need to replace my 13m. I figured I'd better get a 13m that works well with a hydrofoil in low wind if that is likely going to be my new low wind kite.

Maybe I should just sell my big kites to fund my foil board purchase...


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 Post subject: Re: Kite sizes for hydrofoiling
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:47 pm 
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Location: Vancouver, Canada. rides Naish,Ozone,North, Spotz,Aguera
I agree exactly with Peter's post. My 13m Edge is my big kite for light wind wiith my foilboard. I own a 17m but never seem to use it with the foil. When the wind exceeds 11 or 12 knots then my 11m works great.

Any kite works with a foilboard, but I think that a race kite like the Ozone Edge or North Dyno feels best because it sits high in the wind window and has flater profile for going fast.

Generally you can use a full kite size smaller with a foilboard than what the twin tips riders are using.. if they are on 12m you use a 9m. If they are on 9m, you use a 7m. If they are sitting on the beach you use a 13m. :D :D :D

:wink: CG


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 Post subject: Re: Kite sizes for hydrofoiling
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:26 am 
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Peter_Frank wrote:
Hi


Marginal winds is around 8 knots.

In "easy" winds, where all kites can hang, like 10 knots, a wave kite (lots of range and depower) between 9 and 11m2 works great.

In higher winds - when out with say a 7 or 8m2 wavekite in waves (waveboard of course), you can use almost the same size.

Why ?

Because the apparent wind contribution is marginal, the higher the wind.
AND, because you will feel more comfortable having a bit of a pull to lean against, for stability and when jibing (to make you weightless).

So yes, you CAN easily ride a 4 or 5m2 when using a 7 or 9m2 wavekite with a waveboard, but it does not feel that good.

Short story:

In marginal conditions, big kites like 13-15m2 works perfectly.

But as soon as the wind is up so "any" kite can hang in the air, much smaller kites seem to be preferred.

So in 10 knots, maybe up to 12, 9-11m2 works great.

When the wind increases, you still use a bit smaller kite, but not the same difference as in lower winds, is my experience.

I dont know why I am writing this, as experienced hydrofoilers knows this, and unexperienced have to learn by riding...

But maybe just sharing can add some new points ?

If you are racing, it is a totally different game, and using a big kite can be a huge advantage maybe...

But I am talking about "general" riding here, not racing as such :naughty:

8) PF



In the neighborhood of 8 knots lots of little variables start to contribute to success or failure of a session, where above 10 knots, these variables are hidden and the conditions are a lot more forgiving. In some spots where I ride, where the wind always seems to hang in the 9-12 mph range, the direction of the tide flow or the size of the surf will make or break the session. These marginal sessions can be pretty nerve wracking when you are wondering if the kite will stay in the air when you need to tack or gybe and the apparent wind is gone. My hat's off the to experienced kite handlers and riders who can do foiling tacks and gybes with simultaneous kite loops, it really helps when you can keep some kind of apparent wind going.

I got a Cloud 14.5 meter strutless and it has some advantages in the "stay in the air" department. There are a few diehard anti-strutless guys on here, and I myself admit the kite has limitations, but it has been a session saver for me. The low aspect ratio of the kite allows it to quickly turn and recover from dives in light wind. In light wind you will need to dive it a few times before you are foiling. The other good aspect of the kite is that although it is big, you can depower the bar and dump a lot of power if you need. You just have to not be annoyed by the luffing of the canopy and losing a lot of steer-ability when its depowered. Long story short, I have been happy with this kite paired with my foil in 9-16 mph conditions, which is the wind range 90% of the time here.

Now that the chrono is out, I have been eyeing it. It seems to be the hot ticket this season.


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 Post subject: Re: Kite sizes for hydrofoiling
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:57 am 
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Location: Denmark
In the "sweet spot easy range" say around 10-13knots, two kitesizes smaller than used on a TT works great too :thumb:

You could ride with a 7m2, or a 9m2, or an 11m2 in this wind, if you like :naughty:

Quite amazing, and seen often as these are conditions where a lot can not ride, or just glide but not upwind, with a TT and their 12m2 kites which is typical max kites (or use a 17m2 with the TT just going).

But on a hydrofoil you can use 1 or 2 or 3 kitesizes smaller in these very conditions.

Eventhough used to it, it still amazes me :rollgrin:

8) PF

PS: Regarding other variables contributing to success or not, you are correct Randahl.
But it is not the absolute windspeed that was my point here - simply the fact that you can use (or not) a LOT smaller kite in the sweet spot range, and a bit smaller or the same, in the high end range.
And then a racelike kite not too big for the ultimate low end.


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 Post subject: Re: Kite sizes for hydrofoiling
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:27 am 
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Location: Laguna Beach, CA
I'm having trouble figuring out my ultimate low end in foiling between a 12m Speed 3 serial cloth and a 10.5m RRD Vision wave/freeride kite. In 8-12mph winds, an unfavorable current, some shorebreak waves, or some 4-6mph lulls can make keeping the foil kite up in the air (while setting up to waterstart) a challenge. But of course once i'm up and planing the apparent wind / upwind combo is insane.


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 Post subject: Re: Kite sizes for hydrofoiling
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:00 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:00 am
Posts: 27
Great topic! While I'm waiting for my foil to arrive I spend a lot of time computer-foiling ;) I understand that almost any kite will do the job ok and I don't want to buy any new kites just for foiling. I'm not into any kind of racing and will be foiling just for fun.

This thread is great for a beginner like me. I have several Kahoona's (7.5, 9.5, 11.5, 13.5) that I think will be ok since they stays in the air in light wind, have a nice grunt, and most of all have a wide wind range. But they don't pull much when turned. I know the Kahoona is not a pure wave kite but it drift quite nice imo.

Anybody that use Kahoona's or other delta kites when foiling that want to share their experience? Appreciate it! (bare with me if I'm asking in a wrong thread... :) )

B


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