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Chicken Loop Bye Bye?

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cleepa
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Re: Chicken Loop Bye Bye?

Postby cleepa » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:59 pm

Peert wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:58 pm
Nice bar. I do not understand why you would opt for this depower setup. You must kite in an area that doesn't have frequent fluctuations in windspeed in the range of 5 knots up and down... Of course you could handle that with bar throw, but that is IMHO not the preferred option with respect to your body position during kiting. (Depending on sheeting range of your kites).
I kite without trim on my bar. The bar has huge throw (100cm) instead of trim. When I first customised my bar, I put a trim system on it. After a few weeks, I took it off because I never used it. And also because I am kiting in the waves, I like having my kite turn predictably. If you trim the kite, the rate at which the kite turns is affected.

Anyway, pretty often I am kiting in some pretty holey or gusty wind, with fluctuations of more than 5 knots. I do not find lack of trim to be a disadvantage - sheeting is just fine. But I should add that my kites are BRM Clouds, and the throw between full power and full depower is very short. I don't know how other kites perform, but on the Northern California coast it is pretty common to see trimless setups, across many different brands of kites.

SalmonSlayer
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Re: Chicken Loop Bye Bye?

Postby SalmonSlayer » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:09 am

haare wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:11 am
These bars I made buying cheap chinese carbon tubes. Biggest one is 22ID, 25OD and 60cm wide. In the center there is reinforcement about 15-20cm. All the way to 15mm. So the carbon is 1cm thick around the whole. Just glued those tubes together with good epoxy. Waited few days and then drilled the holes.

I am making now second batch of those bars. This time I will use the same carbon tube 22x25. I will put 20cm reinforcement 20x22 in the middle. Then I will put 20mm nylon plastic bar in the middle and drill the hole.

The backlines tubes are these:
I am interested in your bar design. Thank you for the links to material. I want to make sure I understand your design. Maybe I missed something obvious, but I have the following questions.

Is the 20x22 tube you glue inside the 22x25 tube the same length as the 22x25 tube?

How long is 20mm nylon plastic bar you place in the center of the 20x22 tube?

How are the "backline tubes" used?

Can you show a picture of the drilled hole? how did you flare the hole? What tool did you use.

Does the carbon surface wear the center line quicker? Did you do anything to reduce wear?

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PugetSoundKiter
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Re: Chicken Loop Bye Bye?

Postby PugetSoundKiter » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:29 am

This thread is all about losing the CLs but a lot of good info on QRs and slide setups here. Read a very sad story of a kiter who could not release his shackle and thought I’d share it here since a few posts/designs had incorporated wichard/shackle QRs.
In memory of Jeff…I can understand he was not able to eject, it is true that he was riding his own modified kite bar with a shackle system…
http://www.bayareakiteboarding.com/foru ... =1&t=14862
Did a kiteforum search for wichards and thought I’d also re-post a few other experiences so hopefully others will take heed.
Regis-de-giens wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:49 pm
it was officially not recommended by wichard themself as a kite release system. Do not know if it is technically justified or just insurance issues for Whichard which did not qualify it for kitesurfing application...
iriejohn wrote:
Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:03 am
RideZeBigOne wrote:
TomW wrote:Hi RZBO, I used a wichard like yours some years back. Problem I had with it was that it could get easily knocked and released accidentally. The travel is so short.
Hi TomW,
I agree with you, maybe replacing the halyard by a bungee (with correct elasticity) might avoid accidental release?
With this setup, it didn't happen yet, but some years ago I was using this wichard in an other configuration and I met some accidental releases (wichard was reversed, so when bodydragging, water could push the ring).
Anyway, my original release system was also releasing accidentally, so I stay watchful ... :-?
The way to avoid accidental release of a Wichard Quick Release Snap Shackle is ... do not use one.
As said many times before in this thread, there are more reliable alternatives which in addition do not jam when foreign bodies (such as sand) become lodged in the release mechanism.
It's much the same sort of compromise as the use of Antal and similar low friction rings which reduce friction on the ring surface but friction with associated wear still takes place on the rope. This friction and rope wear is significantly reduced by a non friction roller system where the main friction surfaces are on the inside of the roller and the roller bearing bar.
TheRussian wrote:
Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:41 pm
Could always go old school and attach a Wichard snap shackle onto your spreader - however not advisable or a Darwin award may come your way!
coffeeking wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:36 pm
Back in 99-2000ish when flying Arcs…we also used to use boggo standard Wichard for the chicken loop and it worked fine for decades for most people, probably wouldn't still do that now - it did jam with sand if you were unlucky, still better than the D-shackles we started with :) Still launch the FS downwind now in low winds but if you got hit by a gust or squall you'd still suffer the same fate, side-launching is still a recipe for bowties but the QR is more reliable!
Seems the simplistic proven flip pin design may still be preferred DIYs.
Cab QR & Ring: download/file.php?id=82118&t=1
MBR QR & Ring: download/file.php?id=79559&t=1
Cab QR & Ring Slider: download/file.php?id=82096&t=1
Cab QR & Antal Slider: download/file.php?id=75198&t=1
Cab QR & Pulley Slider: download/file.php?id=77076
MBR QR & Pulley Slider: download/file.php?id=77077&t=1

SalmonSlayer
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Re: Chicken Loop Bye Bye?

Postby SalmonSlayer » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:00 am

PugetSoundKiter wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:29 am
This thread is all about losing the CLs but a lot of good info on QRs and slide setups here. Read a very sad story of a kiter who could not release his shackle and thought I’d share it here since a few posts/designs had incorporated wichard/shackle QRs.
There are different "wichard" snap shackle designs. I believe the performance releasing under pressure it depends on which one you use. Also, these snap shackles come with a small line to pull and open the shackle. In my opinion the release needs to be modified by adding a nylon ball that is easier to grab without looking and makes it easier for the rider to pull harder. If a rider does not modify the release, they are putting themselves at a greater risk of not being able to release when needed.

I have hung on my snap shackle to see if it would have a problem releasing and could not get it to fail.

haare
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Re: Chicken Loop Bye Bye?

Postby haare » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:55 am

I replied to other post which I think is more correct place for this discussion.

viewtopic.php?f=107&t=2395445&p=1021211#p1021211

iriejohn
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Re: Chicken Loop Bye Bye?

Postby iriejohn » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:35 pm

Do not use Wichard snap-shackles, they are not designed to release cleanly if foreign matter such as sand or grit is present.

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jumptheshark
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Re: Chicken Loop Bye Bye?

Postby jumptheshark » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:55 pm

The pull string trigger style of wichard shackle is the safest one. The side bolt pull version can jam under load. The tiny string is an obvious issue wrt releasing in an emergency. I get the attraction of a swivel but the trigger need modding for emergency use (as previously pointed out). The bar pictures that sparked all this uses the shackle as the secondary release, with a BRM ball and pin style primary.

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Re: Chicken Loop Bye Bye?

Postby iriejohn » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:27 pm

jumptheshark wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:55 pm
The pull string trigger style of wichard shackle is the safest one. The side bolt pull version can jam under load. The tiny string is an obvious issue wrt releasing in an emergency. I get the attraction of a swivel but the trigger need modding for emergency use (as previously pointed out). The bar pictures that sparked all this uses the shackle as the secondary release, with a BRM ball and pin style primary.
(imho) the "secondary release" is critical because in a life threatening situation it enables you to completely detach from the kite.

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Re: Chicken Loop Bye Bye?

Postby alford » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:29 am

Check out this interesting release/swivel/trim system from Episwiss Rigging. It is kind of a hybrid BRM style system but has a ball bearing swivel and trim cleat as part of the system. It shares the integral leash system like the BRM bar.
Attachments
kite-depower-system (1).jpg
kite-depower-system (1).jpg (2.19 KiB) Viewed 259 times

tomtom
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Re: Chicken Loop Bye Bye?

Postby tomtom » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:35 am

I see only release and swivel - didnt see trim.


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