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The end to death spirals and drownings?

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edt
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Re: The end to death spirals and drownings?

Postby edt » Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:17 pm

tks supa

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pmaggie
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Local Beach: Gera Lario, Como Lake, Italy
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Style: Freeride
Gear: Core Riot XR4 11, Core Riot XR 7, Core Riot XR2 15, Shinn Bronq 136x42, Nobile Flying Carpet
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Location: Como Lake - Italy

Re: The end to death spirals and drownings?

Postby pmaggie » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:34 am

@Spaceracer: I ride Core and their bar comes with a short front leash. If you want the long pro leash you have to ask for it as an optional. Have a look at Core site, I think they sell it. About QR, I understand there are particular situations, but I think 99% the best idea is to operate the safety far before understanding what's exaclty going wrong because if you're thinking to QR it means that's something IS actually going wrong :D

ronnie
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Re: The end to death spirals and drownings?

Postby ronnie » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:33 am

Deflating the kite remotely would be very difficult to achieve and would be likely to be triggered accidentally or on purpose by others.

I think disconnecting from the kite is the better solution.

Almost all systems work well if you trigger the Q/R to flagging line, but there are examples of kites that still do not flag properly and IMO that should be something that is unacceptable.

I had a 2007 Cab Contra 14m that flagged to one line, but it had a strong leading edge and struts, so kept it's shape very well and still had a lot of power and looped slowly if flagged when the wind shifted above the kite's wind-range.

There are kites that flag to both front lines but do not sheet out completely. Instead they partially sheet out and could sit on their leading edge on the water with their full area exposed to the wind while they dragged you.

If you get tangled with someone else's kite and they release, it doesn't solve the problem by remotely deflating your kite.

So I think the flag, then complete release system is the way to go, but there are a lot of improvements that can still be made and kites that don't flag properly should be made a thing of the past.

SpaceRacer
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Re: The end to death spirals and drownings?

Postby SpaceRacer » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:29 pm

Good points. For deadly extenuating circumstances, more and more, things point to having a good solid hooknife handy and accessible. Failed QRs can be cut, tangled lines can be cut, etc. What about being dragged by the line around the ankle? At the comfort of my computer, I always think, I can just do a crunch and cut it off but others tell me that a line of a powered kite around the ankle is most likely a "bye bye kiter" situation. Is this true?

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RickI
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Re: The end to death spirals and drownings?

Postby RickI » Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:00 am

Kiters have been badly tangled by kite line and dragged substantial distances while others had the same thing happen and died. It can come down to how things workout and luck. Although keeping your head regardless has good survival value.

Here is a case from 2005 in which Pete managed to cut out of things in big waves while being well wrapped up and pulled underwater for extended periods. http://www.fksa.org/showthread.php?t=543

There was another case of a guy in Germany who cut out of an ankle tangle. http://fksa.org/showthread.php?t=148

These happened in higher wind and the guys survived. There have been others in both high and lighter wind in which the kiters didn't make it.

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pmaggie
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Local Beach: Gera Lario, Como Lake, Italy
Favorite Beaches: Lo Stagnone (Marsala, Sicily - Italy) - Soma Bay (Egipt) - Cabarete (Dom Rep.) - Kite beach (Maui)
Style: Freeride
Gear: Core Riot XR4 11, Core Riot XR 7, Core Riot XR2 15, Shinn Bronq 136x42, Nobile Flying Carpet
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Location: Como Lake - Italy

Re: The end to death spirals and drownings?

Postby pmaggie » Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:43 am

Something I'd like to know is the effect of a floating device in these situations. In Como lake it is mandatory (I mean a real floating aid, not the impact vest), even if 80% of the kiters and windsurfers don't wear it (don't forget we are italians... :-) Sometimes the coast guard comes and elevate fines but it's rare). What about the floating device effect in the worst case scenario? Can it be a real life saver or once you're dragged it's useless? About me, I always wear one from the time of windsurfig races, not only for safety reasons but also because my one has a camel back and I can drink while riding.

SpaceRacer
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Re: The end to death spirals and drownings?

Postby SpaceRacer » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:34 am

Why do the 3 leashes shown: Ozone, Cabrinha and Core all use carabiner type attachments? North used to have the pinch lobster claw which is what I use. Carabiner attachments can easily snag onto a spreader bar hook or flying line. I don't like them and thought they were being phased out?

ronnie
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Re: The end to death spirals and drownings?

Postby ronnie » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:53 am

SpaceRacer wrote:Why do the 3 leashes shown: Ozone, Cabrinha and Core all use carabiner type attachments? North used to have the pinch lobster claw which is what I use. Carabiner attachments can easily snag onto a spreader bar hook or flying line. I don't like them and thought they were being phased out?


Because convenience is given a higher rating than safety.

People do buy stuff that isn't the safest but is more convenient or higher performance, so the suppliers give the people what they want.

I bought a 2013 Drifter even though I know it doesn't flag out as well as I think a proper safety flagging system should. I accept that I have to be prepared to let the kite go if a situation arises where it makes enough difference.

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RickI
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Re: The end to death spirals and drownings?

Postby RickI » Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:21 pm

A lower profile impact vest can make all the difference when things go wrong. Higher bulk Type I PFDs can actually pose some to risks to kiters. Most don't really notice the impact vests they have on after a while. It can keep you warmer, give you a place to stash your keys, help out with routine procedures in deepwater and it can even save your life if you are offshore for a long period of time. I've worn them since my start in kiting, 16 years ago. I've covered many miles swimming and have gone for seven hours before (incredibly tedious by the way) free style and many times while free diving but despite that I wear an impact vest. Guys have drowned who likely wouldn't have with an impact vest on. So, yes it is a good idea to wear a suitable one for the demands of kiting.

golfaroo
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Re: The end to death spirals and drownings?

Postby golfaroo » Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:31 pm

Dumb question: where do you attach the leash at the front of the harness? I have a Dakine Pyro and the only attachment place I see at the front is the spreader bar? :help:


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