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Cape Cod Ban, need everyone's help!

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Rbgar
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Cape Cod Ban, need everyone's help!

Postby Rbgar » Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:16 pm


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Re: Cape Cod Ban, need everyone's help!!!!!

Postby Lubo » Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:09 pm


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Re: Cape Cod Ban, need everyone's help!!!!!

Postby NYKiter » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:09 pm

The document list some exceptions:

"The town of Wellfleet Duck Harbor Beach on Cape Cod Bay which is open to kite surfing all year long."

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Re: Cape Cod Ban, need everyone's help!

Postby Toby » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:09 pm

signed and spread!

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Re: Cape Cod Ban, need everyone's help!

Postby robertovillate » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:14 am

This is really sad and unbelievable!! I just read the pdf on the regulations.

So, kitesurfing is beig banned but they still allow oversand travel in 4x4's???.WTF? ..and the premise is that birds think the kites are birds of prey???...c'mon..get serious NPS!!!

I've kited in lots of places all over the world where there are nesting birds. Once they have seen a kite a few times and realize they are not a threat...and a bird can out-fly a kite any day of the week anyway...they just go about their business of feeding, courtship, nesting, etc. I would be very surprised if there was any empirical evidence to prove that kites are a threat to bird populations...especially on the basis that they are perceived as birds of prey.

I spent many years on the beaches of Cape Cod, driving my Jeep on the beach in many places between Chatham and P-town when we were sailboarding there during the 80's-90's... I was always trying to be very conscious of the wildlife on the beaches and seriously doubt that kites would ever be a problem. Occasionally there are the numb-nuts 4x4 drivers who would drive recklessly and possibly cause a problem...but probably not even their most obnoxious behaviour would effect the birds that much.

I wish you guys the best in your efforts to keep the Cape open for kiting.

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Re: Cape Cod Ban, need everyone's help!

Postby Johhnn » Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:59 pm

It _is_ unbelievable and unfair. Instead of a complete ban, why not just set up a few simple guidelines? Have designated launch and land areas, maybe using 200 feet of beach near each parking spot and away from birds. Make sure riders know to launch and immediately get off the beach and enjoy the water. There is a lot of open space there on Cape Cod. I go there as often as I can, several times a year. Surely there is a way that we all can enjoy it without having a detrimental impact on the natural environment.

Most people I have met think kitesurfing is, what superlative shall I use?, "super cool?" The other day while I was setting up, someone, on their own initiative, corralled their kids for a few minutes and told them, "Stay with me, out of his way for a minute and watch this. This is the greatest thing I've ever seen." Or something close to that. So, I think we should talk to people on the beach who are curious, be friendly, kind of like "ambassadors" of the sport. Then in addition try to set up something that's not too onerous (a loose organization), that helps us to keep access. This really applies to any beach where rules are becoming restrictive.

I signed the petition as did my wife and I forwarded it to as many people as I thought would be willing to sign it. Please, everyone, sign it.

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Re: Cape Cod Ban, need everyone's help!

Postby CaptainArgh » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:45 pm

Johhnn wrote:It _is_ unbelievable and unfair. Instead of a complete ban, why not just set up a few simple guidelines? Have designated launch and land areas, maybe using 200 feet of beach near each parking spot and away from birds. Make sure riders know to launch and immediately get off the beach and enjoy the water. There is a lot of open space there on Cape Cod. I go there as often as I can, several times a year. Surely there is a way that we all can enjoy it without having a detrimental impact on the natural environment.

Most people I have met think kitesurfing is, what superlative shall I use?, "super cool?" The other day while I was setting up, someone, on their own initiative, corralled their kids for a few minutes and told them, "Stay with me, out of his way for a minute and watch this. This is the greatest thing I've ever seen." Or something close to that. So, I think we should talk to people on the beach who are curious, be friendly, kind of like "ambassadors" of the sport. Then in addition try to set up something that's not too onerous (a loose organization), that helps us to keep access. This really applies to any beach where rules are becoming restrictive.

I signed the petition as did my wife and I forwarded it to as many people as I thought would be willing to sign it. Please, everyone, sign it.

Agreed, John. It is such bullshit. The wildlife protection decisions are not even logical any more and are denying the public access to land we own. At least build a case/proof before banning...but, they don't have to so they won't. I am convinced that it is just fear of liability. They are afraid of being sued by an organization like Audubon for failing to protect the wildlife as per their charter, so they are just preemptively cutting off access. Our government needs to adjust the charter/legislation that governs NPS and FWS and give them more flexibility and liability protection.

I also agree with what you said regarding bystanders watching you. I was kiting on the beach in Pea Island this spring. Kite ban signage has been slowly going up and this is the first year we heard rumors of warnings/citations so were not sure what to expect. Every time I saw someone come up with a clip board or binoculars to watch us I figured we were fucked. But, every time we went up to say "hello" they were just walking up to watch the kites, were friendly, and amazed with the sport!

It just seems like a very small group of people is organized enough to limit the activities of a very large group of people, and they have so little rationale for their decisions.

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Re: Cape Cod Ban, need everyone's help!

Postby RichardM » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:53 pm

CaptainArgh wrote:
Johhnn wrote:It _is_ unbelievable and unfair. Instead of a complete ban, why not just set up a few simple guidelines? Have designated launch and land areas, maybe using 200 feet of beach near each parking spot and away from birds. Make sure riders know to launch and immediately get off the beach and enjoy the water. There is a lot of open space there on Cape Cod. I go there as often as I can, several times a year. Surely there is a way that we all can enjoy it without having a detrimental impact on the natural environment.

Most people I have met think kitesurfing is, what superlative shall I use?, "super cool?" The other day while I was setting up, someone, on their own initiative, corralled their kids for a few minutes and told them, "Stay with me, out of his way for a minute and watch this. This is the greatest thing I've ever seen." Or something close to that. So, I think we should talk to people on the beach who are curious, be friendly, kind of like "ambassadors" of the sport. Then in addition try to set up something that's not too onerous (a loose organization), that helps us to keep access. This really applies to any beach where rules are becoming restrictive.

I signed the petition as did my wife and I forwarded it to as many people as I thought would be willing to sign it. Please, everyone, sign it.

Agreed, John. It is such bullshit. The wildlife protection decisions are not even logical any more and are denying the public access to land we own. At least build a case/proof before banning...but, they don't have to so they won't. I am convinced that it is just fear of liability. They are afraid of being sued by an organization like Audubon for failing to protect the wildlife as per their charter, so they are just preemptively cutting off access. Our government needs to adjust the charter/legislation that governs NPS and FWS and give them more flexibility and liability protection.

I also agree with what you said regarding bystanders watching you. I was kiting on the beach in Pea Island this spring. Kite ban signage has been slowly going up and this is the first year we heard rumors of warnings/citations so were not sure what to expect. Every time I saw someone come up with a clip board or binoculars to watch us I figured we were fucked. But, every time we went up to say "hello" they were just walking up to watch the kites, were friendly, and amazed with the sport!

It just seems like a very small group of people is organized enough to limit the activities of a very large group of people, and they have so little rationale for their decisions.


It is pure, unadulterated BULLSHIT that kiters are"having a detrimental impact on the natural environment.". Even if it were true (and could be PROVEN) that kites scare some retarded birds, it is OBVIOUSLY IMPOSSIBLE to show that this occasional supposed fear has any adverse effect on the wildlife.

I disagree that "They are afraid of being sued by an organization like Audubon for failing to protect the wildlife as per their charter, so they are just preemptively cutting off access." All the individual employees have total immunity from liability and the ONLY downside for them if they are sued is that some of them will have to do more WORK by being involved with attorneys. How many times have you heard of a government employee who was FIRED because his org got sued?

The REAL reasons are that the various governmental bodies want to continue restricting the public as a means of control and the various regulatory and enforcement agencies LOVE to help because it means LESS WORK. If you were in charge of regulating activities at a location, would it be MORE work with lots of people performing various recreational activities or MORE work if the only people allowed were AUTHORIZED bird watchers/counters? Any alleged fear of being sued by Audubon is a smokescreen to advance the above agenda since it is obviously possible to justify recreational activities even if there was some occasional detriment to a few birds.

Incidentally, petitions are simply ANOTHER control method employed to deceive the sheeple public into THINKING that they have a voice. No gov agency cares about petitions because they know that the ease of petitioning nowadays means that most petitioners are not local and will NEVER be in a position to apply any REAL pressure.

Richard M.
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Re: Cape Cod Ban, need everyone's help!

Postby pj sofine » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:29 am

Richard,you hit the nail right on the head this time.(you do miss from time to time).

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Re: Cape Cod Ban, need everyone's help!

Postby CaptainArgh » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:43 am

RichardM wrote:...
I disagree that "They are afraid of being sued by an organization like Audubon for failing to protect the wildlife as per their charter, so they are just preemptively cutting off access." All the individual employees have total immunity from liability and the ONLY downside for them if they are sued is that some of them will have to do more WORK by being involved with attorneys. How many times have you heard of a government employee who was FIRED because his org got sued?

Nah, that's not the point. This is what happened in Hatteras. Audobon sued the park service for not protecting the wildlife, now they are gun shy and closing shit off left and right to avoid more trouble. (yes, it is more complex than that, but there's my Executive Summary).

It is nothing to do with the individual rangers being lazy or afraid of losing work. They get paid like everybody else no matter what they do and the individual rangers are usually great people who want to see people enjoying the lands they maintain. I'm sure there are some bad apples in the lot, but most are just doing what they're told.
RichardM wrote:...The REAL reasons are that the various governmental bodies want to continue restricting the public as a means of control..

I think you're off your rocker with conspiracy theories here, but, I won't argue with you on this thread further about it. I know you can run on like diarrhea on this topic and I don't have the time to keep up with you. ;)

You've had some great tips on the other threads. I know you mean well, I just disagree (as we're all entitled to) that it has anything to do with park rangers being lazy or anyone having a power trip. They have a charter to protect the land that is loosely worded and they are interpreting it in the way that best covers their asses. Those are the same points you made, actually, on Dimitri's Pea Island thread. Very poor language in that FWS example and I'm sure it's not the only place.

Peace! Let's do what we can to keep Cape Cod open to kiting!!!


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