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 Post subject: Re: Fatality in Long Island, NY
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:25 pm 
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I'm about 50 miles west, there was a brief windy period before noon, the iKitesurf sensor at Napeague showed a peak of about 17. That's enough to get in trouble, especially when it's not steady.


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 Post subject: Re: Fatality in Long Island, NY
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:28 pm 
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Location: Ford Lake, Michigan
CaptainArgh wrote:

related accident the autopsy won't tell us anything. I'm sure some locals know if his safety was deployed, found tangled in his lines or there was any obvious gear failure. One still can only guess,


well there is a police investigation too in order to rule out foul play, I think the police know right now what happened they must have interviewed everyone. Just sit tight nobody speculate we'll know in a month or two what caused the accident. As always my condolences to the friends and family.


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 Post subject: Re: Fatality in Long Island, NY
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:17 pm 
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agree that speculation won't help us understand what happened. all we can do is wait for the autopsy as already stated.

and unfortunately no one can say whether his safety was deployed as only his family and the police on the scene were there to find him, it's unknown whether they know anything about kiteboarding or are willing to release any of that to the public.

yes it was 10 mph most of the day according to ikitesurf, i checked the wind forecast and there was no wind predicted so i didn't even think twice about not going. the articles just said he was a novice kiteboarder, he had left in the AM on Sunday 7/20, and his family found him at 2 pm when he didn't return to their temp residence in bridgehampton - they said he was found attached to his kite and in a grassy/marshy area. he's survived by his wife (who also worked/works at goldman) and two young children (i read two toddlers/babies), a brooklyn resident from the dumbo neighborhood.

very sad and very unusual. typically the only time that winds show up unannounced is during thermals which are usually the latter part of the day, afternoon to early evening.

my condolences as well, i can't imagine how the family is doing. a friend of mine knew him from work and said he was a good person and will be missed. it's very unfortunate and sad.


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 Post subject: Re: Fatality in Long Island, NY
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:28 pm 
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edt wrote:
CaptainArgh wrote:
related accident the autopsy won't tell us anything. I'm sure some locals know if his safety was deployed, found tangled in his lines or there was any obvious gear failure. One still can only guess,

well there is a police investigation too in order to rule out foul play, I think the police know right now what happened they must have interviewed everyone. Just sit tight nobody speculate we'll know in a month or two what caused the accident. As always my condolences to the friends and family.

The STFU guidance is odd for a kite accident. So maybe there is suspicion of foul play. ?
I've never seen a kite accident where fellow kiters (if they knew anything) did not want to share details so others can learn from the mis-steps.
There is no way a police investigation summary communicated two months from the event is going to have a useable intelligent analysis of a kiteboarding accident. Have you EVER seen a non-kiter accurately describe a kite rescue or accident?

Anyway, seems odd, but maybe there is a reason to shut down any speculation. I won't post again on this thread. And do hope the investigation goes well.

echo wrote:
...and unfortunately no one can say whether his safety was deployed as only his family and the police on the scene were there to find him, it's unknown whether they know anything about kiteboarding or are willing to release any of that to the public...

Okay, this makes sense then. Still, when this has happened before the kite/bar/board is often shown to another kiter so they can see if there are any obvious signs of trouble (gear failure, safety status, tangles.) I guess if he's particularly wealthy there is a lawsuit risk against the manufacturer by the insurance company...those vultures will go after anybody they can to avoid paying out of their own pockets.

Always tough to read about families left behind. I hope we can learn from this unfortunate accident. Awful news all around.


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 Post subject: Re: Fatality in Long Island, NY
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:39 pm 
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CaptainArgh wrote:
...

... I hope we can learn from this unfortunate accident. Awful news all around.


Learn from an accident ?
YES --- Kiting Alone is NOT a Good idea ; and the "Why" should be taught in kite-school !!

Wasn't the guy that just died in the PNW ; wasn't he Also kiting Alone ?
And he wasn't even a Beginner !!

If you see a buddy go down, and he stays down for a while ; in a Lot of cases, Ya got
a few minutes to administer CPR in order to bring him back.

ME -- i just don't wanna get eaten by wild critters ,while i'm dying in the desert , somewhere
on a Mohave shore-line.

Bille

=============================================================

Yep-- the firefighter Was kiting alone :

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2385432&hilit=firefighter+dies

So would he be Dead, if a buddy was kiting with him that day ? Sadly we will Never
know ! :(


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 Post subject: Re: Fatality in Long Island, NY
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:41 pm 
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Location: shallow sea
Bille wrote:
...ME -- i just don't wanna get eaten by wild critters ,while i'm dying in the desert, somewhere on a Mohave shore-line...

why not? isn't it like the nature doing it?


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 Post subject: Re: Fatality in Long Island, NY
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:00 pm 
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So far the only thing we really know for sure (most likely anyway) is that he was kiting alone. I won't exactly argue that kiting with someone is not any safer than kiting alone as long as some caveats are added. First off, when I have kited alone, I kite more conservatively and more awarely and am prepared for most contingencies (when alone I have kited closer to shore with compact fins, PLB and/or flare depending on the conditions). That aside, I have been in groups where everyone is showing off for everyone else and come dangerously close to each other. Groups where there are so many people that every kiter on the water assumes that someone else will check on the downed guy (not a good thing to assume). Groups where all of a sudden you turn around and think, "Where the hell is so and so...". Kiting with others SAFELY truly needs to be like mountain climbing or back country skiing, where you respect the elements, count on each other, communicate, "pair up for safety", wait for the slow guy, etc., etc. Otherwise not kiting alone is just a false safety net which in my opinion is more dangerous than kiting alone.


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 Post subject: Re: Fatality in Long Island, NY
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:12 pm 
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eree wrote:
Bille wrote:
...ME -- i just don't wanna get eaten by wild critters ,while i'm dying in the desert, somewhere on a Mohave shore-line...

why not? isn't it like the nature doing it?


YEP !!
And if it happens , I hope they start with my legs ; maybe they'll spit them out
because carbon & SS taste BAD !!

SpaceRacer wrote:
...
Kiting with others SAFELY truly needs to be like mountain climbing or back country skiing, where you respect the elements, count on each other, communicate, "pair up for safety", wait for the slow guy, etc., etc. Otherwise not kiting alone is just a false safety net which in my opinion is more dangerous than kiting alone.


Yes, YES, and YES !!! :thumb:

And that is exactly how it is when i kite with my Friends !!
Down-winders in the North winter winds , we follow kiters with a boat ; great comradery, with
beer at the finish-line , 20 miles downstream !
I've driven the boat before ; still seemed to be Fun , just hanging out !!

Had a Bad yard-sale heading North on a down-winder to cottenwood once ; the best guy always
goes Last, to pick up gear & boards when needed, and that day i Needed my board
back. Thanks Darin !!!

Kiting with Friends is FUN and Safer than Not kiting with a friend.

We got a trick we call the double Argentinian back-roll :
Ya look to see if your buddy is looking,
Then Ya do the trick.
And last, Ya look to see if your buddy was Looking to see the trick Ya just did.
And it's WAY more FUN, than doing the same trick by yourself !!

Can Ya guess why we call it by the name we call it; my friend Santiago is
from Argentina ; he invented it !!

I've needed help , "More" than i've given it ; but i have done a rescue a time
or two , for others.

Bille


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 Post subject: Re: Fatality in Long Island, NY
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:31 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:25 pm
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Location: The Naki
So far all we know is that the guy was alone? he may very well have had a heart attack for all we know?

Until further info comes out its all conjecture.

Personally I fly solo 30% of the time. I'm not going to stop either. Otherwise I would loose 30% of my sessions. There are several times a year I pull pin because the conditions are too dangerous for solo.
But for the most part its on like donkey kong!.

I don't see kiting as any different as any of the other sports I do solo. Sure don't go as nuts as what you would when others are around. If your sensible then it will be fine. If shit happens. it happens. You cannot go around missing out on life because of the "what if's"

Make a good risk assesment and fly accordingly. Live life!


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 Post subject: Re: Fatality in Long Island, NY
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:39 am 
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Posts: 1497
Location: PASA Level III Instructor FL- OBX - MI - the world
I'm basically with plummet on this one. I ride alone a lot for the same reasons.

In a perfect world it is nice to have a mate, or another decent kiter, riding nearby...but even then...in the end, we are often left to our own devices when the shite hits the fan.

There are some situations where the assistance of other has probably saved a kiters life or serious injury - i can recall several from my own experience and several stories from other kiters - but things can happen really fast when something goes horribly wrong in the water (namely drowning) or sudden impact causing life threatening trauma. Sure, it's great if someone else is there to summons the EMT's or heli-evac...but as someone else suggested you cannot rely on this as security. I admit I feel a lot more comfortable riding with a reliable partner (especially in risky wave conditions), but I think it's an unspoken agreement between us that we are on our own and that we can only help each other only if it's possible.

The one issue that this sort of discussion always brings to my mind is the phenomenon of those kiters, sailors, windsurfers, or power boaters who seem to be completely oblivious to a situation where someone is in need of assistance - or perhaps too selfish to care?. I believe that as a "mariner" it is an age old credo that we heighten our awareness to anyone, friend or foe, in trouble on the sea and to render assistance when and if possible...and quickly.

Just as a typical example that I see all too often - yesterday I was packing up and noticed a kite go belly up about a mile downwind and 1/4 mile off-shore. The wind was gusty and variable 18-22 kts and slightly side-off. There were several other kites on the water where I was and a few other kites further downwind closer to the distressed kiter. I watched for 10-15 minutes while packing up to see if the guy was going into self rescue mode. It looked like he was having trouble making headway toward shore (probably because of the wind direction). I got in my van and drove down the shore to see what was happening and thinking I might have to rig up and go get him. By the time I got there he had made it close to shore, so I waited to ask him if everything was under control. As it turned out he was fine - his kite had inverted and he could not relaunch it.

I asked him if anyone else had come to check on him (because there were 3 other kiters about 500m from where he first lost control of his kite. He replied "no"!! That sort of thing just pisses me off more than just about anything. He thanked me for checking on him and offering him a ride back to his car.

I just don't get it, why some people can't take 2 minutes (or even an hour) of their time to check or help another person in the water. If I see a kite go down and if it isn't relaunched within a minute or so I always go check, whether I have to go way downwind or way upwind. It just seems like the right thing to do...the only thing actually. Not to contradict myself (that we are on our own) but sometimes a few moments can make all the difference in the world during a water emergency.

sorry if i got off topic with this


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